OVER 60 Foreign Pilots to fly as PIC in USA

[Nindiri]

So what if Undaunted wants to fly until 65? What business is it of anyone else to tell him he has to retire just so they can move up a number?

 

[2000flyer]

Even though we're an ICAO member state, that doesn't mean we march lockstep with everything they say.

 

[G100driver]

Even though we're an ICAO member state, that doesn't mean we march lockstep with everything they say.

Really .... just look at how far behind the US was in implementing RVSM our screwed up RNP (AC-90-100) and training requirements (or lack there of).

Heck ... we still cannot even teach our kids the metric system.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

What is your reference for this Information/News Flash? I have looked on the ICAO site, and done many general searches, and have found no confirmation on this subject.

There is no link because there is no offical news release of this information by ICAO.

 

[Say Again Over]

Upper age limit for pilots

Background ICAO is currently reviewing a proposal to increase the upper age limit for airline pilots from 60 to 65 years. A State letter on the subject, was circulated to States in December 2003 and 112 States replied. Of these, 83% indicated that an international age limit above 60 years would be appropriate for airline pilots. Seventy two States would welcome an international upper age limit of 65 years for pilots engaged in multi-crew operations and a further six States preferred no upper age limit at all. Many States were of the opinion that only one pilot of age 60 years or older should be accepted in any one flight crew.
Of the 112 States replying, 16% indicated their preference to maintain the current upper age limit of 60 years, citing possible safety risks and a lack of convincing data that flying after age 60 is safe.
In the light of the responses to the State letter, a proposal to amend Annex 1 to increase the upper age limit for pilots was circulated to States in February 2005. This proposed the following new wording for Annex 1:

2.1.10.1 A Contracting State, having issued pilot licences, shall not permit the holders thereof to act as pilot-in-command of an aircraft engaged in international commercial air transport operations if the licence holders have attained their 60th birthday or, in the case of operations with more than one pilot where the other pilot is younger than 60 years of age, their 65th birthday.
2.1.10.2 Recommendation. — A Contracting State, having issued pilot licences, should not permit the holders thereof to act as co-pilot of an aircraft engaged in international commercial air transport operations if the licence holders have attained their 65th birthday.
​

An ICAO Standard, as is paragraph 2.1.10.1, represents a mandatory minimum requirement and States must notify ICAO if they do not meet the Standard. States can, however, choose to impose a more restrictive limit should they so wish. A Recommendation, on the other hand, is regarded as ‘desirable’ and does not represent a formal minimum requirement.
Current situation
The replies to the State letter distributed in February this year were discussed by the ICAO Air Navigation Commission in November 2005. The Commission agreed that a report for consideration by the ICAO Council should be drafted and it is anticipated that the Council will review this in the early part of 2006. In the process of the review, changes may be made to the proposal. The final Amendment is intended to become applicable in November 2006.

from the ICAO website.

 

[Pistlpetet]

Ok, it is still in a quagmire of indecision.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Let's Talk Money

IT IS A GREAT FINANCIAL ADVANTAGE TO BE ABLE TO FLY TO AGE 65 FOR TOTAL DOLLARS EARNED AND FOR RETIREMENT.

JUST LOOK AT THE NUMBERS:


Here is how much more a person would have by working to age-60 or by working 5 extra years to age-65.

Using an example of a 40-year old new hire F/O who earns 60K and will be a captain in 5 years. Captains earn 100K at this generic airline.

By retiring at age-60 that pilot will have a career earnings of $1,800,000.

If he puts 10% of what he earns in a 401k and gets a 10% return on investment at age-60 he will have $475,513. That is all he will have to last 20 years if he dies at 80. This is no where near enough money.



Using the same 40-year old but by delaying his promotion by 5 years if age-65 (wouldn'd really be 5 years because some pilots will still leave early) becomes law for pilots, that pilot would have a career earnings of $2,100,000

If he puts 10% of what he earns in a 401k and gets a 10% return on investment. At age-65 he will have $749,324 to last that 15 years. Better but still not good enough money.



Now if the pilot was 30-years old when he started then his career earning by retiring at age-60 would be $2,800,000 and his 401k would be $1,233,533. Better but still not good enough.

Now if that 30-year old worked until he was 65 his career earnings would be $3,100,000 and his 401k would be $1,943,725 to last just 15 years. This is enough to retire.



Do you want to retire poor or with enough money. Anyone can clearly see that age-65 and starting to put money away at age-30 is the answer.


Of course one divorce with children will put even the best case into poverty.

Also, this model assumes a 10% return on investment. That number may really be 5% or less which make it even more important to work to age-65.

Questions/comments…..
__________________

 

[Pistlpetet]

Now if the pilot was 30-years old when he started then his career earning by retiring at age-60 would be $2,800,000 and his 401k would be $1,233,533. Better but still not good enough.

If you think that making 4 million dollars is not enough money to retire on, then there probably has been something wrong with your "Money Attitude" and spending through out your life, and 5 extra years is not going to help you out.

 

[TurboS7]

American pilots over 60 will be able to drive the flight crews of all the ICAO countries back and fourth to the airport. They can still hit on the foreign FA's and not have to worry about sexual harassment.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

If you think that making 4 million dollars is not enough money to retire on, then there probably has been something wrong with your "Money Attitude" and spending through out your life, and 5 extra years is not going to help you out.

The 4 million represents a lifetime earnings. That looks like a lot of money but over 30 years and really 50 years if you include 20 years of retirement it's not enough. And even that amount was based on a very optimistic 10% ROI. With a 5% ROI which is still good on the long term and more realistic, the same 4 million would only be 2.8 million over the 50 years, retiring with a 401k of 785K. My fellow board members this is just not enough money.

As was pointed out earlier, age 60 pilots will have to get a job driving the over age 60 foreign pilots to the airport.