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[B19 Flyer]

It's clear to me that you like your "safe, dependable" management position, where you get to bend your non-union pilots to your will on a daily basis, you sir have gone over to the dark side. If you were at one time a pilot, those days are long gone. I'm glad you are happy where you are, why not stay out of our business, remain there and revel in bliss? Why do you devote so much time to your efforts on this message board? If you have no stake in our fight at FLOPS why poke your nose into it? I have my suspicions...and so does everyone else who reads this message board.

My original interest is actually with another fractional that I consulted for during a short period of time after my last layoff from a union action. Currently, I'm back in 121 operations in a non-management position enjoying my career without the pall of a union hanging over my career.

I do however know that this forum is read by all fractional pilots. I admire the fractional model and was involved long enough to see that unions want to tear apart this industry also. Where there is a buck to be made, you can guarranty a union is there with it's greedy hands. As a result, I know that my opinions are read by all. not just those at FLOPS but those I've become friends with also that work elsewhere. This is where the conversation currently is. As there are very few that dare post against unions, I enjoy bringing the other side of the truth, the one that pilots never get to see from their side unless they have the courage to walk in the shoes of management.

I'm confident that doesn't answer your question, but it's the best I can do on short notice.

 

[1po'dpilot]

I'm not Bob, whoever the heck that is.... but I don't and never have believed that unions help any company do anything except bring it hardship.

If you dont answer to "Bob" anymore, does that mean you answer to SCAB now? Try walking in the shoes of a pilot and come out from the management desk you're hiding under.

 

[Phoenix]

Have another glass of Kool-Aid and don't spike it this time.. remember, it's 8 hours bottle to throttle...

[FONT=&quot]Another glass of Kool-Aid, now that is rich coming from you. And your lack of reasonable rebuttal was predictable.[/FONT]

 

[Ben Dover FLOPS]

Have another glass of Kool-Aid and don't spike it this time.. remember, it's 8 hours bottle to throttle...

Nice, well thought out, rebuttal. You really put some thought into that one, d0uchebag.

 

[fischman]

I didn't become anti-union until I got repeatedly screwed over by unions that I wasn't even a part of. I have yet to see where ANY union, especially in aviation, has made any carrier stronger. All I've seen is repeated failures by union leadership to support anything but their own membership at the expense of all the non-union workers and the overall health of the carrier. This cost to support the union takes away from infrastructure and the ability to retain talented employees that allow the carrier to run smoothly. In reality, when pilots complain because "management can't do anything right" it is usually because the funds required to provide support are going into the CBA instead of those employees that REALLY make things happen. Kicking me in the nuts does nothing more than provide proof that my employment by a non-union carrier is the best think I ever did for my career. Be careful what you ask for.

So you didn't notice a change at NetJets between 2005 and 2006? You don't think that 1108 had something to do with that? I'd like to hear your explanation on how management alone took an $80 million loss and turned it around into a $143 million profit. (I'll give you a hint. They didn't...)

You are the most DENSE person I have ever met.

 

[GerryG]

My original interest is actually with another fractional that I consulted for during a short period of time after my last layoff from a union action. Currently, I'm back in 121 operations in a non-management position enjoying my career without the pall of a union hanging over my career.

I do however know that this forum is read by all fractional pilots. I admire the fractional model and was involved long enough to see that unions want to tear apart this industry also. Where there is a buck to be made, you can guarranty a union is there with it's greedy hands. As a result, I know that my opinions are read by all. not just those at FLOPS but those I've become friends with also that work elsewhere. This is where the conversation currently is. As there are very few that dare post against unions, I enjoy bringing the other side of the truth, the one that pilots never get to see from their side unless they have the courage to walk in the shoes of management.

I'm confident that doesn't answer your question, but it's the best I can do on short notice.

That's hilarious, I'm egotistical? And yet you deem your opinions to be so important that all fractional pilots can benefit from hearing them? Wow.

I think in reality your are either 1) a paid union buster, plying his trade or, 2) a remorseless hack with mental health related delusions of grandeur.

Please spare us your hyperbole, I think its safe to say, we will find our way without your opinions, be they for-hire or otherwise.

You know I digress, to some extent now that I think about it. The truth loves a lighting rod to give it context. And when you consider that you personify the management perspective, lol, well lets just say I am not surprised you've had a journeyman's career.

 

[TurboHonda]

That's hilarious, I'm egotistical? And yet you deem your opinions to be so important that all fractional pilots can benefit from hearing them? Wow.

I think in reality your are either 1) a paid union buster, plying his trade or, 2) a remorseless hack with mental health related delusions of grandeur.

Please spare us your hyperbole, I think its safe to say, we will find our way without your opinions, be they for-hire or otherwise.

You know I digress, to some extent now that I think about it. The truth loves a lighting rod to give it context. And when you consider that you personify the management perspective, lol, well lets just say I am not surprised you've had a journeyman's career.

Ha Ha. Right. What he said. And get that pos BMW detailed, while you're at it.

 

[B19 Flyer]

That's hilarious, I'm egotistical? And yet you deem your opinions to be so important that all fractional pilots can benefit from hearing them? Wow.

I think in reality your are either 1) a paid union buster, plying his trade or, 2) a remorseless hack with mental health related delusions of grandeur.

Please spare us your hyperbole, I think its safe to say, we will find our way without your opinions, be they for-hire or otherwise.

You know I digress, to some extent now that I think about it. The truth loves a lighting rod to give it context. And when you consider that you personify the management perspective, lol, well lets just say I am not surprised you've had a journeyman's career.

Your statement about pilots being the most important employees in an air carrier is egotistical. My statements are geared specifically at those that have never been in a union and think that it's the answer because there is some other union member forcing Kool-aid down their throat. It's not. You guys in unions are stuck with them. Enjoy them right up until the bankruptcy or furloughs. Then you can continue to blame management because they weren't smart enough to be profitable when saddled with an unreasonable contract that they were forced into by union tactics.

The FLOPS guys voted the union in and are living in the predictable nightmare leading up to the first CBA and all the problems of implementation once there is a TA. As many as four or more years is normal. Handcuffing and threatening the company with a union isn't the answer, it ALWAYS creates pushback, you asked for it, you got it. Be careful what you ask for. Four years is a long time in this industry, and the economy of aviation can change on a dime. If there were more guys on these threads that took the time to point out some of the crap that unions have pulled to continue to educate those before they get into something that they can't get out of, I wouldn't bother. Every now and then others show up, then I become quiet as I'm not the only voice.

I'll never support a union, and busting a union isn't my game. To me, the only good union is one that stays off the property to begin with.

Those companies that don't have unions give safe haven for guys like me that have been continuously screwed over by unions. Thankfully there are still a lot of them out there. There is a lot to this industry that is behind the scenes, and I can tell you right up front from first hand experience that I've never been involved with a union that had anything in mind except to pillage the company for every last cent of profit the company has and placed the company at risk of safety and economic hardship.

I'm no more of a journeyman than any other aviation professional that was laid off due to a union action. It's part of the business unless you stay away from air carriers with unions. By going with a non-union carrier, my career is in my hands, because I'll be damned if anybody (especially a union) is going to speak for me.

 

[dime line]

Your statement about pilots being the most important employees in an air carrier is egotistical. My statements are geared specifically at those that have never been in a union and think that it's the answer because there is some other union member forcing Kool-aid down their throat. It's not. You guys in unions are stuck with them. Enjoy them right up until the bankruptcy or furloughs. Then you can continue to blame management because they weren't smart enough to be profitable when saddled with an unreasonable contract that they were forced into by union tactics.

The FLOPS guys voted the union in and are living in the predictable nightmare leading up to the first CBA and all the problems of implementation once there is a TA. As many as four or more years is normal. Handcuffing and threatening the company with a union isn't the answer, it ALWAYS creates pushback, you asked for it, you got it. Be careful what you ask for. Four years is a long time in this industry, and the economy of aviation can change on a dime. If there were more guys on these threads that took the time to point out some of the crap that unions have pulled to continue to educate those before they get into something that they can't get out of, I wouldn't bother. Every now and then others show up, then I become quiet as I'm not the only voice.

I'll never support a union, and busting a union isn't my game. To me, the only good union is one that stays off the property to begin with.

Those companies that don't have unions give safe haven for guys like me that have been continuously screwed over by unions. Thankfully there are still a lot of them out there. There is a lot to this industry that is behind the scenes, and I can tell you right up front from first hand experience that I've never been involved with a union that had anything in mind except to pillage the company for every last cent of profit the company has and placed the company at risk of safety and economic hardship.

I'm no more of a journeyman than any other aviation professional that was laid off due to a union action. It's part of the business unless you stay away from air carriers with unions. By going with a non-union carrier, my career is in my hands, because I'll be damned if anybody (especially a union) is going to speak for me.

Thanks for the new bid policy you idiot. I cant wait to see the dispatch reliability now

 

[fischman]

Your statement about pilots being the most important employees in an air carrier is egotistical. My statements are geared specifically at those that have never been in a union and think that it's the answer because there is some other union member forcing Kool-aid down their throat. It's not. You guys in unions are stuck with them. Enjoy them right up until the bankruptcy or furloughs. Then you can continue to blame management because they weren't smart enough to be profitable when saddled with an unreasonable contract that they were forced into by union tactics.

The FLOPS guys voted the union in and are living in the predictable nightmare leading up to the first CBA and all the problems of implementation once there is a TA. As many as four or more years is normal. Handcuffing and threatening the company with a union isn't the answer, it ALWAYS creates pushback, you asked for it, you got it. Be careful what you ask for. Four years is a long time in this industry, and the economy of aviation can change on a dime. If there were more guys on these threads that took the time to point out some of the crap that unions have pulled to continue to educate those before they get into something that they can't get out of, I wouldn't bother. Every now and then others show up, then I become quiet as I'm not the only voice.

I'll never support a union, and busting a union isn't my game. To me, the only good union is one that stays off the property to begin with.

Those companies that don't have unions give safe haven for guys like me that have been continuously screwed over by unions. Thankfully there are still a lot of them out there. There is a lot to this industry that is behind the scenes, and I can tell you right up front from first hand experience that I've never been involved with a union that had anything in mind except to pillage the company for every last cent of profit the company has and placed the company at risk of safety and economic hardship.

I'm no more of a journeyman than any other aviation professional that was laid off due to a union action. It's part of the business unless you stay away from air carriers with unions. By going with a non-union carrier, my career is in my hands, because I'll be damned if anybody (especially a union) is going to speak for me.

yawn....uke: