Options

[Fozzy]

"Keeps me warm at night."

Now I'm not leaving till we have a CBA or they turn the lights off in CGF.

Now that is the spirit! That must be the frame of mind of the pilots or you will never see an end. You must also be willing to live with the possibility of burning the whole thing down. :uzi:
I know I was and so was the majority. Could have gone either way at NJA and regardless, I would be holding my head up high!

 

[Freedom]

Actually Bob (I mean B19)

Thank you for making my case for me.

You would rather let the union force the company into a position where you see them turn off the lights and put everybody out of work rather than step into a management role and attempt to fix what's wrong or find a place to fly that is best suited to your individual desire. And before you give be that typical BS about your efforts building the company etc., I've put just as much effort into my career and got pushed out by two different unions I didn't even belong to out of sheer selfishness and greed of the local MEC and pilots union.

I fixed that problem and NO UNION will ever push me out again.

Just like Bill Boisture over at NetJets, when I and my fellow Pilots bring you and your management team to your knees, just like the NetJets Pilots did, you will be out on your ass within a month, just like Bill Boisture was over at NetJets.

And of course, that is why you, our VP of Flt Ops, are fighting so hard against the Flt Options Pilots. You know when we win, you will be flat out on your ass.

I also like your statement about the two Unions you didn't even belong to. I guess refusing to pay your Dues like all of your other Brothers and Sisters made you feel somewhat superior to them. In reality, it still made you a Scab when you crossed the line, Dues paying member or not.

Reality sucks doesn't it Bob. Eastern Airlines may be dead and buried, but your Union Brothers and Sisters still remember.

Freedom is not Free.

 

[Ultra Grump]

All kidding aside now. If there is that much wrong, why wouldn't you go just to an air carrier that had their act together? There is more hiring out there now than there has been in nearly a decade. Union or no union, a CBA isn't going to fix what you describe.

And that's why it's a perfect time to hold out or STFD. If Options goes away, there are plenty of other options (no pun intended) right now.

 

[FRLWD]

such as what is happening right now at Northwest. The safety issues are overwhelming.

And how does hiring unqualified scab mechanics help?

You can tell me all the wonderful things that unions have done for you, and I'll equal them with everything unions have taken away from me as a direct result of their greed.

You're just pissed because you're on a scab list.

This forces the carrier to find other ways to cut and pay for the contract. Usually it goes to the quality of the non-union support workers, maintenance and internal support... In other words, all the things that make each flight safe everyday.

Meanwhile the CEO's accept millions in bonuses.

Admission? Damn right. If you ain't got the nuts to walk in the shoes of management to see what it's like on the other side, don't stand there and throw it out like it's something bad. Those of us that have walked those paths know how hard it is to hit that fine line balancing a CBA with the needs of safety and the financial health of a carrier. Go walk in them... if you dare.

Nuts??? It's easy to sit behind a desk and push productivity metrics at pilots.

It takes courage to walk the tight rope of operating an aircraft safely and legally with the constant underlying pressure of a group of managers who are focused on faulty productivity metrics. And if you don't play ball........... your job is at risk.

 

[FRLWD]

I've never been involved with a union that had anything in mind except to pillage the company for every last cent of profit the company has and placed the company at risk of safety and economic hardship.

I've never been involved in a union that had anything in mind except saving the company from bankruptcy, and protecting jobs

I'll be damned if anybody (especially a union) is going to speak for me.

Yet you'll let some CEO with less education and job experience than you cram his sh1tty ideas down your throat, and force you try to sell them to the pilot group. And you, the courageous manager, will do your best to apply lipstick to the pig.

 

[FRLWD]

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-76617259.html

Delta Air Lines Downturn Reflects Rough Skies for Airline Industry.

From:
Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News
Date:
July 19, 2001

By Nancy Fonti, The Atlanta Journal and Constitution Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News



http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-78056343.html


Second worst.(US airline industry reports $2.5 bn profit decline)(Statistical Data Included)

From:
Air Transport World
Date:
September 1, 2001

You still can't resist re-hashing these six year old articles. You can't draw any conclusions from these articles because the events of September 11 created a new chapter in our nations economic and airline history. These articles also don't explain why a unionized company like Net Jets flourished after 9/11 and continue to flourish after an industry leading contract. Nor does it explain why a non-unionized company like Flight Options grew exponentially during the same period, then began (and continue)to shrink while other fractional companies grew and continue to grow. It might have something to do with the CEO......M. Shrinka.

 

[FRLWD]

Those companies that don't have unions give safe haven for guys like me that have been continuously screwed over by unions. Thankfully there are still a lot of them out there.

Which ones??

What does Southwest Net Jets and Fed Ex have in common??.......They're all unionized, all successful, and everyone would like to work there.

 

[Phoenix]

Start at the top

Thank you for making my case for me.

You would rather let the union force the company into a position where you see them turn off the lights and put everybody out of work rather than step into a management role and attempt to fix what's wrong or find a place to fly that is best suited to your individual desire. And before you give be that typical BS about your efforts building the company etc., I've put just as much effort into my career and got pushed out by two different unions I didn't even belong to out of sheer selfishness and greed of the local MEC and pilots union.

I fixed that problem and NO UNION will ever push me out again.

The problem with your suggestion if, I were interested in taking another management position, which I'm not, is that the man that sits at the top of the management tree is the problem and I would be expected to be an extension of his mismanagement. Shiet flows down hill and he is full of it. There have been comments made on here about the middle managers and that they would need to be replaced to fix our problems. I disagree with this. These managers are just doing what is expected of them by senior management all the way to the top. Until the a$$ that sits in the CEO's chair changes there will be no fundamental change in the relationship between the pilots and management and until that time a Union and a CBA are absolutely essential to Options pilots.

As far as the Union being the entity that causes the lights to be turned out in CGF, again you are placing blame incorrectly. Management has built the problems at Options and ignored the concerns and input from the pilots for years. The Union and the negotiations process are here to protect the interest of the pilots that have decided that this job is worth saving but only under the protections of a contract. If you are in a senior management position I'm sure that you have a contract that defines the conditions of your employ. Why do you believe that your contract is any more important and less destructive then a CBA between the pilots and the company?

 

[Freedom]

As far as Middle Managers at Flight Options:

Moral Men do not execute Immoral Orders, no matter who that order may come from, even if it costs them their own job.

I don't give our Middle Managers a "Pass" just because they are following orders.

That's a Cop out.

Freedom is not Free.

 

[Phoenix]

Moral Men do not execute Immoral Orders, no matter who that order may come from, even if it costs them their own job.

I don't give our Middle Managers a "Pass" just because they are following orders.

That's a Cop out.

Freedom is not Free.

I didn't pass judgment on our middle manager based on their intestinal fortitude or their moral compass. My only point was that what ails Options starts from the top not at the middle management level.

 

[nomore]

New to Board

I'm new to this board, not flying nor fractionals, and I just have one question. Why are you guys even responding to BT? I think it would be more productive to piss up a rope! Isn't there some sort of ignore function?


Never mind I figured it out, all by my own little self too!

 

[Phoenix]

B19

If you are in a senior management position I'm sure that you have a contract that defines the conditions of your employ. Why do you believe that your contract is any more important and less destructive then a CBA between the pilots and the company?

B19, I asked you this question and all we have heard after all your pro management anti Union BS is crikets, I would like an answer. :erm:

 

[FracMonkey]

Oh he!!

I think it's time to quit sparring with management boy. Bottom line, it's game over at FLOPS with the new vacation announcement. The mass exodous will commence in earnest and soon we will not have the pilots to cover peak travel season. Owners will leave in droves and Shirtfinger will succeed in what Raytheon brought him in for. Shutting FLOPS down.

Have a nice day!

 

[learflyer]

I think it's time to quit sparring with management boy. Bottom line, it's game over at FLOPS with the new vacation announcement. The mass exodous will commence in earnest and soon we will not have the pilots to cover peak travel season. Owners will leave in droves and Shirtfinger will succeed in what Raytheon brought him in for. Shutting FLOPS down.

Have a nice day!

I left just over a year ago. What is the difference with this forced vacation vs. the one that began around two years ago?

 

[FracMonkey]

It's way too complex to explain here, but we are having to bid for vacations that determine our rotation dates for the next year. That's not all that bad. The disagreeable part is that there will be forced overtime in November that FLOPS is not going to pay anyone for until November 2008. Once again Mikey ant his goon squad reach into our pockets and STEAL FROM US!

All I can say is that peak travel season is going to be HELL! Raytheon wanted it, they're going to get it.

STMFD!