One Rate for Comair? Thanx SkyWest

[180ToTheMarker]

I feel bad for 39% of you Comair guys. Good luck.

 

[goodpilotithink]

I hope the love fest with this snake is finally over. He is NOT one of us as he would want you to think. He still lives in ATL. Our company pays for his temporary condo here.That is fact.

5 years? Paleeeze. I say let the judge void the contract, and when they exit bk, they will have to deal with us like real men, not some cowards hiding behind the bk judge.

Phred is a good manipulater. That is why he is here. It was not a demotion. They needed him here to rape our contracts. He lied with the last loe, and he is lieing now.

The operating numbers that are thrown in our face all the time are meaningless. ASA has always been at the bottom, we are always towards the top. Who is loosing AC and who is getting AC?

I certainly would never condone it but if the pilot group as a whole responds with all normal thrust to's, 2 engine taxi and apu on all day I certainly would understand their frustration.

 

[xjlifer]

I thought the rates looked respectable for a feeder.

Ok I will bite...you sir are a a$$. I know you do not represent most "big" airline pilots....but that lofty perch your on is in for a hard fall....enjoy the ride

 

[JI Gone OH]

I thought the rates looked respectable for a feeder.

Phred pray's for guy's like this..........

 

[bvt1151]

I have to agree the Skywest is to blame for the mixed pay rates. They are the only airline offering all aircraft on the same scale, and Fred has undoubtedly used them as an example.

Exactly how low the pay actually is, is Delta's fault [bankruptcy].

 

[wmuflyguy]

SkyWest just did as well...

80% participation: 71% No, 29% Yes.

Remind me again what that vote means...If i'm not mistaken it is was a feel good thing and they can impose whatever they want on you anyway, without so as much as telling you first.

 

[CFIT]

of course you did, cause that's what, like $0.20 raise?

80% voted (out of 2000+), and a third said yes! Simply disgusting.

Hey meat curtains,

I did vote yes, it's a pay raise, not a cut like your getting. Anything offered today is something to increase from for the next time.

 

[fugghedabowdit]

From the look of it, there is no way this proposal will fly. It's almost 100% no, and Fred may have made a colossal mistake in that many who believed in him are now seeing the light. I'm not saying it won't be imposed on us anyway, but at least we can fight it after we exit, and we'll have our dignity and self-respect intact.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

They agreed to fly 70 seaters for 50 seat rates though, didn't they?

Ok,
One more time for the truly stupid. The "vote" was on a company computer server, administered by company IT stooges, ended 2 hours prior to the published end time, which was then followed by the wallstreet announcment of a new contract with UAL. Oh and if that wasn't enough the pilot group is not (then and now) collectively bargained, we are at will employees. the managments of all carriers have successfully turned LABOR against themselves(divide and conquer) and are laughing all the way to the bank and golden parachute drop zone(west palm beach). You just keep your eye on just what your managers tell you and they will pull the wool right over those eyes. BTW UAL pilots have consolidated payscales too, but that would not be as obvious. If you are refusing to remember history you are doomed to repeat it. Oh yes didn't Comair managment pioneer PAY FOR TRAINING? They are not your friend, your fellow pilots are all you got and you continue to throw rocks. You should know there were SKYW pilots who refused to fly Comair struck routes in Comair aircraft and paid the ultimate career price. Not even a thank you for doing whats right.
PBR

 

[crashpad]

I wish you guys the best.

 

[OpenSkies]

I have to agree the Skywest is to blame for the mixed pay rates. They are the only airline offering all aircraft on the same scale, and Fred has undoubtedly used them as an example.

Exactly how low the pay actually is, is Delta's fault [bankruptcy].

For regionals maybe, but we are on a single payscale too.

 

[ASADriver]

I have to agree the Skywest is to blame for the mixed pay rates. They are the only airline offering all aircraft on the same scale, and Fred has undoubtedly used them as an example.

Exactly how low the pay actually is, is Delta's fault [bankruptcy].

Not true bvt, UPS has had a single rate for 727 up thru 747 for years. Delta had a blended 757/767 rate. United has blended rates. The majors did long before the SKYW blended rate. In fact PSA did it before SKYW.

Aside from that, how does separating the rates help if you have very low rates ala Mesa. Aren't they more to blame than SKYW?

 

[wilde737]

Sorry guys that sucks to hear! I do have a question though. How is flying a 70/50 seat crj for the same wage, any different than flying a 757-200/757-300 for the same wage. It seems to me that it has been going on far too long to be blaming SkyWest. I am relatively new to the industry, so I'm sorry if I offend anyone.
Wilde737

 

[PalmettoPilot]

Now there's a great idea.... I don't think we get a vote in Chapter 11! Why are we the only one's that are supposed to say no, anyway? Why has everyone else caved since 2001? (and don't give me the 9/11 excuse).

Ummmm.... how long ago was it that Comair pilots voted themselves a pay freeze? (in effect pay-cut) Why don't you think that is "caving", or does it not apply to you?

 

[General Lee]

Sorry guys that sucks to hear! I do have a question though. How is flying a 70/50 seat crj for the same wage, any different than flying a 757-200/757-300 for the same wage. It seems to me that it has been going on far too long to be blaming SkyWest. I am relatively new to the industry, so I'm sorry if I offend anyone.
Wilde737

When we put our 757 and 767 rates together, we moved the 757 rates UP TO the 767 rates. We did not bring them down. SkyWest pilots voted to allow rates for planes up to 99 seats to equal their 50 seat rates. That is the difference.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Skaff]

I have to agree the Skywest is to blame for the mixed pay rates. They are the only airline offering all aircraft on the same scale, and Fred has undoubtedly used them as an example.

Exactly how low the pay actually is, is Delta's fault [bankruptcy].

The entire blame goes to bankruptcy. If Comair had a more competitive pay rate, they would not have had to take a pay freeze. If Delta was a leaner airline and managed better, they would not have found themselves in bankruptcy. It's a perfect example of employee groups demanding "best in the industry" compensation packages in the good times which are bound by contracts, and not having the flexibility in the bad times to stay profitable. Blended rates are your own fault, not ours. Although I don't like the blended rate, I'd prefer decent quality of life and job security.

 

[bvt1151]

For regionals maybe, but we are on a single payscale too.

unfortunately we're not compared to UPS.

Irrelevant.

 

[bvt1151]

The entire blame goes to bankruptcy. If Comair had a more competitive pay rate, they would not have had to take a pay freeze. If Delta was a leaner airline and managed better, they would not have found themselves in bankruptcy. It's a perfect example of employee groups demanding "best in the industry" compensation packages in the good times which are bound by contracts, and not having the flexibility in the bad times to stay profitable. Blended rates are your own fault, not ours. Although I don't like the blended rate, I'd prefer decent quality of life and job security.

Actually, Comair's pay has nothing to do with Delta's bankruptcy. Pilot savings will be somewhere around $17 million at Comair. Anyone remember how much Delta lost last year?

This blended rate agreement may pass because there has been precedence set. If the judge sees that some pilot group actually "voted" for this pay style, it will happen. If Skywest never adopted blended rate, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[ArcticFlier]

If Skywest never adopted blended rate, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Nice to think that SKYW is so cutting edge that they were the first to come up with the 'blended rate'.

Do you really think that Comair would not be looking at a blended rate if it wasn't for SKYW?

Other airlines operate aircraft at blended rates, and have for a long time. I know it's typically somewhere in between the two airframes, but I would be curious to know what SKYW's true blended rates would be if SKYW were compared to other airlines that have true seperate rates for comparable aircraft. ie find out the average industry wide for the 50 and 70 seat and compare them to what SKYW pilots make on average.

Hmmmmm.........homework.



AF

 

[ArcticFlier]

Okay..........I took all other airlines that operate similar platforms and came up with this (averaged out):

Horizon 115
Comair 107 (could be changing for the worse (ie 90.07))
SKYW 93
ASA 92.5
Eagle 92
AWAC 89
PSA 87.5
MAG 86.5
CHQ 85
Pinnacle 82
TSA 80
Ex. Jet 74.5

These are all based on Captain rates at the cap for their respective agreements. I got the rates from http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/ and backed them up from http://willflyforfood.cc/

Granted, SKYW has a true blended rate (others do to. ie Ex. Jet operates the EMB 135/140 for the same rate. MAG operates the EMB 140/145 for the same rate), but if you want to compare apples to apples (your paycheck) you may want to look at what your house is made of (glass) before you start throwing rocks at the others around here.

I'm not happy about our blended rate. I didn't vote for it, and would love to see it gone.

AF

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

The race to the bottom... Good luck to everyone at Comair.

TA

 

[Tooslow]

There IS A pay differance from long and short jet at ExpressJet!

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

$74.50 max pay at XJT? Are you smoking crack??? Eff. 12/05, max E135CA 81.69, E145CA 92.41.

 

[Otto]

Funding CEO's Retirements

Actually, Comair's pay has nothing to do with Delta's bankruptcy. Pilot savings will be somewhere around $17 million at Comair. Anyone remember how much Delta lost last year?

All this to "save" $17 million while Leo Mullin left Delta with what? $16 million for his steller performance while at the helm? What a f#@kin joke!

 

[kc81900]

I am sure these rates will be voted down but the courts may have other ideas. Just like mainline management is making proposals they know will be voted down. I guess they know they will get what they want in court. We are all screwed

 

[jrav8tor]

Alright everyone lets quit throwing stones at each other! We ( and I mean every airline from regional to major, with exception to those making profits UPS, FedEx, SWA, etc) are all in this war together. Hell, even the profitable airlines have a stake in this.

Everyone is so quick to start blaming another pilot group bringing us all to the bottom? It's not the pilots that are the problem. It's management, people like Leo Mullin and his cronies that ran Delta into the ground, but jumped out with his golden parachute before the ship burned! He isn't the only mgmt personnel to do this, but is the only example I can think of this late!

These guys should be investigated and brought before congress for making such poor irrational business decisions that not only affected the shareholders, but more importantly affected tens of thousands of people's lives. I mean, it's f#cking ridiculous to me that this continues to happen in this day and age. What's the difference between Enron, WorldCom, or Tyco mgmt stealing money from their companies or Airline mgmt making poor business decisions that turn a profitable company into a company that is breaking records by losing BILLIONS!!

I know 9/11 and the economic slump prior to 9/11, and now oil prices had a big part of it! One of these definitely couldn't have been forecasted, but there are a few airlines still making money by making smart business decisions resulting in profits in the worst downturn this industry has seen!

We all, as well as Congress, should be holding management accountable about business decisions that have led to massive furloughs, pensions cut or done away with, peoples lives ruined. It does us no good to cast stones at each other...as another person said, mgmt is laughing all the way to the bank!

I guarantee if I am not prepared for a checkride, I am held accountable!!!


By the way KC81900, that's a real nice avatar!!

 

[LoweringTheBar]

I am sure these rates will be voted down but the courts may have other ideas. Just like mainline management is making proposals they know will be voted down. I guess they know they will get what they want in court. We are all screwed

Unfortunately, You are right.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Actually, Comair's pay has nothing to do with Delta's bankruptcy. Pilot savings will be somewhere around $17 million at Comair. Anyone remember how much Delta lost last year?

This blended rate agreement may pass because there has been precedence set. If the judge sees that some pilot group actually "voted" for this pay style, it will happen. If Skywest never adopted blended rate, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Whether it's a blended rate or not your managment would be gunning for that $17 million. If SKYW got a new payscale tomorrow with $20 override for the 70 seater do you think that concession demands at CMR would go away?

Quit looking for a scapegoat. We're just not buying it.

 

[ArcticFlier]

There IS A pay differance from long and short jet at ExpressJet!

You're right!!! 80 for the long and 69 for the short....................for an average of.............................74.5.



AF

 

[ArcticFlier]

$74.50 max pay at XJT? Are you smoking crack??? Eff. 12/05, max E135CA 81.69, E145CA 92.41.

First off, you need to read my post. It was an average!!!!!! ( otherwise known as a form of blended rate).All I'm going by is what is on two web sites. It says that the 135 pays 69 max. The 145 pays 80. XJT guys got a pay raise. Good on ya!!!!!!!! Let's do the math shall we? 92.41+81.69/2=87.05 87.05 is your new average at Express Jet.


AF