Once a Air Force Fighter Pilot=Never Cool Again

[waka]

Thanks for the dudes who passed the kind words...

Here's a simple rule:

If a guy was a dick when he was in high school, was a jerk in the fraternity or at the academy, was a jerk in pilot training, was a jerk as flight lead, instructor, evaluator, or squadron DO or commander...he'll probably end up a dick as an airline pilot too.

If a guy was a great guy in high school, a lot of fun at the academy or in college, was a bro in pilot trianing helping his buddies, was a good guy as a wingman, young fight lead, IP, evaluator, and squadorn DO or comander, he probably is a great guy to fly a trip with at the airline.

We make choices as to what kind of person we want to be...generally at a young age. We spend the next 20-30 years trying to live up to our goals. Some guys seem to enjoy being jerks...others pride themselves on letting their flying and their friends do their talking for them. I know which camp I aspire to be in...probably fall into both camps at times but at least I'm trying...

And the best synopsis on how to control an ego came from John Moore, my UPT classmate who passed away in early 90s in his late 20s after a bout with melanoma. He would always say "whenever you start to get proud of yourself, just remember we are nothing but heavy equipment operators for the US Government..." Whenever I started to feel a little too big for my britches as an Eagle guy, I just remembered Mojo's words and tried to snap back reality.

My own identity? I flew over 2000 hours in the mighty Eagle, and I'm proud of the fighter pilot title. By I've also flown gliders, been a CFI/CFII including time as a University instructor, flown jumpers over the Cape Canavaral area, flown 727s and MD-11s all over the world, and spent countless hours chasing clouds in a host of GA planes. I learn something from every plane I fly, and something from every other pilot I fly with... So...pick your own labels, but the one I have always aspired to is "aviator". There is always something else to learn, and more adventures to savor...

Wow! Top FI posts of all time!

 

[Beech Balls]

i just love the F-teeners...I keep covering my watch so as not to get shot down...

 

[Scrapdog]

OK, I'll take a shot - btw, great post Albie. I don't care what kind of airplane you flew or which service you flew it - fighters, heavies, helicopters...Navy, AF, Marine, Army - if you served, we're probably going to have a good trip together. I didn't say always, I said probably. If you're a civilian, you can be a good dude and a good stick as well...and it can also be an enjoyable trip - but it will never be the same as flying with another military guy - and here's why.

Military guys serve in our armed forces because they believe in our country and our ideals. We choose, when we sign the dotted line, to put our lives on the line if so required, i.e. selfless service. There is a common bond - a brotherhood - that lives deep down in us, whether it was as an enlisted guy in the Army or a fighter pilot in the Navy - that we will always share, and that no civilian can ever understand. It's a silent pride thing - I don't think I'm a better pilot or person than any civilian - but I will always have a place in my heart for the love of my country and all that I sacrificed in order to achieve it. Civilians CAN be true patriots as well - but never to the same "aspect" of the military man - especially one that has lost brothers in both training and combat (which I have and many other military folks on this forum have as well).

As far as flying a trip with a military guy - well, I typically enjoy it more simply because we have a common background. There are a bunch of civilian guys I've flown with as well that are a true joy to hang out with and fly a great jet. But for all the civilian guys on here that badmouth military guys because they're "d*cks, dorks, etc"...never forget he served his country honorably and has lost brothers in the line of duty - and that's something you have never experienced.

As a side note, the book "Lone Survivor" does a great job at explaining in detail what I just said.

 

[IBNAV8R]

. . . And, you can cuss with military proficiency, regale in stories about B*****g F*****G G**g back at XXXX AB, without worrying that you're offending some PC ***** loving', **** sucking, civilian pantywaist M****r F****r.

 

[Beech Balls]

. . . And, you can cuss with military proficiency, regale in stories about B*****g F*****G G**g back at XXXX AB, without worrying that you're offending some PC ***** loving', **** sucking, civilian pantywaist M****r F****r.

that's right...you can keep living in the past.
well, none of us so-called "PC civilian pantywaists" give a damn what the entry speed of a loop in a T-38 is, much less where you got your callsign.

 

[Airbum]

Scrapdog,

I think you shacked it.

 

[ExAF]

Agree

Scrapdog,

I think you shacked it.

I also think he shacked it. For our civilian brethren, "He hit the nail on the head."

 

[Airbum]

I wasn't sure if I was more pissed off at his lack of humility, or more embarrassed for a guy who had nothing to live for past the age of 24.

I'm sure his family is soooo proud.

Hi, I always dislike the civil vs military thing. However I can claim to have done both. I am sure his family is proud. I know mine is.

I hope I don't live in the past but I will admit that my time flying fighters was the pinnacle of my career so far. Lucky for me it lasted well past age 24. Great memories and now on to making more.

Sorry you had some bad experiences with ex military types. This job is way more fun when we all can laugh at ourselves and look forward to a good trip

 

[Bavarian Chef]

OK, I'll take a shot - btw, great post Albie. I don't care what kind of airplane you flew or which service you flew it - fighters, heavies, helicopters...Navy, AF, Marine, Army - if you served, we're probably going to have a good trip together. I didn't say always, I said probably. If you're a civilian, you can be a good dude and a good stick as well...and it can also be an enjoyable trip - but it will never be the same as flying with another military guy - and here's why.

Military guys serve in our armed forces because they believe in our country and our ideals. We choose, when we sign the dotted line, to put our lives on the line if so required, i.e. selfless service. There is a common bond - a brotherhood - that lives deep down in us, whether it was as an enlisted guy in the Army or a fighter pilot in the Navy - that we will always share, and that no civilian can ever understand. It's a silent pride thing - I don't think I'm a better pilot or person than any civilian - but I will always have a place in my heart for the love of my country and all that I sacrificed in order to achieve it. Civilians CAN be true patriots as well - but never to the same "aspect" of the military man - especially one that has lost brothers in both training and combat (which I have and many other military folks on this forum have as well).

As far as flying a trip with a military guy - well, I typically enjoy it more simply because we have a common background. There are a bunch of civilian guys I've flown with as well that are a true joy to hang out with and fly a great jet. But for all the civilian guys on here that badmouth military guys because they're "d*cks, dorks, etc"...never forget he served his country honorably and has lost brothers in the line of duty - and that's something you have never experienced.

As a side note, the book "Lone Survivor" does a great job at explaining in detail what I just said.

Tell all of that to the firefighters, cops, and PA cops that died in the Towers. Or any firefighter or cop for that matter.

While I agree with "most" of what you said, you are idealizing it quite a bit. Many join for college, or to pi$$ off parents (got one of those in my squadron), or because their BAC was higher than their GPA for their first semester of college (met lots of senior enlisted with this problem).

Yeah, they sign, yeah they take the risks, but not all do so with the faint refrain of "America the Beautiful" in the background. Yet despite that, what makes us share in the bond that you mentioned is the Oath that we so freely take, and hopefully sincerely believe in.

 

[bearcat]

Tell all of that to the firefighters, cops, and PA cops that died in the Towers. Or any firefighter or cop for that matter.

While I agree with "most" of what you said, you are idealizing it quite a bit. Many join for college, or to pi$$ off parents (got one of those in my squadron), or because their BAC was higher than their GPA for their first semester of college (met lots of senior enlisted with this problem).

Yeah, they sign, yeah they take the risks, but not all do so with the faint refrain of "America the Beautiful" in the background. Yet despite that, what makes us share in the bond that you mentioned is the Oath that we so freely take, and hopefully sincerely believe in.

Thread drift....this is about flying personalities among civi and military.

Scrapdog said it best.....

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Thread drift....this is about flying personalities among civi and military.

Scrapdog said it best.....

Yes, Colonel.

You alone are the arbiter of this great social mess called flightinfo.com -- your service, while misunderstood, is of great value to the internet.

 

[800Dog]

So, what I take away from this thread is that the best pilots come from "The Auburn University"!! As a civilian guy, I really enjoy flying with military folks. Wanted to be one myself but, it was not meant to be. Timing can be a bitch.. My take, Embry Riddle is the Air force Academy of the civilian ranks. Never quite developed social skills. Enjoy the ride.....

 

[waveflyer]

Well said 800- (cept for the Auburn part... I agree- love flying w/ the mil guys bc it's different

Scrap- my standard take on the mil/civ debate is that I don't have any problem with your pride- just don't attempt to take away mine. Your post is alright if that's your thing- but it's prejudicial. A Mil resume doesn't entitle you to anything- you know that some serve better than others- some are true selfless patriots - others took a job and are a drain on taxpayer funds and in it for their own gain. And conversely, there are many good and patriotic people who never were in the military. Your words sound narrowminded toward civilians- and that you ought to get some super-citizenship in the US for your service- and special treatment in the airlines. It's two different worlds brother. Let it go. Serving in the military is as relevant to the airlines as my college football days. It helped make us who we are- but time marches on.

 

[Oh-ryan]

There is one singular place where this argument is true: the Dash 1 flight manual. Other than that, this statement is a nice intra-service rivalry (untrue and incorrect) rumor that keeps getting perpetuated.

This quote, or a variation of it, is in the first chapter of every USAF -1:

I cannot comment with any kind of certainty with regards to what a -1 does or does not let you do. It's painful enough reading my own NATOPS. I have no desire to read a -1 for fun. I'd rather rip my fingernails off with rusty pliers and soak the bloody stumps in lemon juice.

What I do have experience with is operating on both USN bases and USAF bases as well as participating in USN sponsored exercises and USAF sponsored exercises. I'll take the USN mentality. The USAF seems to find a way to make everything a little more difficult then it needs to be- whether it be checking into the BOQ, an airspace, getting a tee time, dropping a weapon, hooking up with enlisted girls or crossing a dreaded red line on the ramp.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I cannot comment with any kind of certainty with regards to what a -1 does or does not let you do. It's painful enough reading my own NATOPS. I have no desire to read a -1 for fun. I'd rather rip my fingernails off with rusty pliers and soak the bloody stumps in lemon juice.

What I do have experience with is operating on both USN bases and USAF bases as well as participating in USN sponsored exercises and USAF sponsored exercises. I'll take the USN mentality. The USAF seems to find a way to make everything a little more difficult then it needs to be- whether it be checking into the BOQ, an airspace, getting a tee time, dropping a weapon, hooking up with enlisted girls or crossing a dreaded red line on the ramp.

The red line is funny, but the COL that patrols the flightline and enforces it is even funnier.

COL is the new CAPT in the USAF.

Going back to the Deed next year -- oh joy. Better get my reflective belt drycleaned.

 

[Mamma]

The red line is funny, but the COL that patrols the flightline and enforces it is even funnier.

COL is the new CAPT in the USAF.

Going back to the Deed next year -- oh joy. Better get my reflective belt drycleaned.

Chef, I have some spare reflective belts if you need one! We are doing an exercise at McChord this week and the number one rule is everyone has to wear a reflective belt 24/7. It is noon, 80 degrees and sunny and you are at your desk inside....better have it on. Instead of focusing attention to the task at hand, we are stuck in a reflective belt culture now. I say outlaw reflective belts and let nature take its course. If you can't cross the street without getting hit by a car then you should be naturally selected from the herd. Sorry for the thread drift....now back to those awful fighter pilots...that means you Bavarian Chef.

 

[JAKEFAC]

Met Chappie James at the Auger Inn at Randolph in the late 60's. As a Brown Bar, I had the stupidity to break into his conversation and introduce myself; he had the class to shake my hand and buy me another beer (I didn't need it). Some things you never forget. They threw away the mold when the war produced the likes of Chappie James and Robin Olds.......RIP.

 

[retired guy]

Met Chappie James at the Auger Inn at Randolph in the late 60's. As a Brown Bar, I had the stupidity to break into his conversation and introduce myself; he had the class to shake my hand and buy me another beer (I didn't need it). Some things you never forget. They threw away the mold when the war produced the likes of Chappie James and Robin Olds.......RIP.

Yeah...they called themselves..."Black Man and Robin"

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Chef, I have some spare reflective belts if you need one! We are doing an exercise at McChord this week and the number one rule is everyone has to wear a reflective belt 24/7. It is noon, 80 degrees and sunny and you are at your desk inside....better have it on. Instead of focusing attention to the task at hand, we are stuck in a reflective belt culture now. I say outlaw reflective belts and let nature take its course. If you can't cross the street without getting hit by a car then you should be naturally selected from the herd. Sorry for the thread drift....now back to those awful fighter pilots...that means you Bavarian Chef.

Dude, sorry I haven't called you back -- will do next week.

You should see what Andrews is doing in preparation for Swine Season.

We had to send a LT to a 2 plus day conference/symposium on base -- my favorite is the Personnel Distancing Procedures (or whatever they called it). "Now hear this, all Base Personnel must remain 6ft away from all other Base Personnel at all times."

No sheet.

But then we digress again. God forbid we have thread drift on the internet. I am pretty sure the AF internet manual forbids it.

 

[IBNAV8R]

that's right...you can keep living in the past.
well, none of us so-called "PC civilian pantywaists" give a damn what the entry speed of a loop in a T-38 is, much less where you got your callsign.

What the captain means is that he enjoys flying with airmen of diverse backgrounds. While he has found most of his present-day cohorts to be very pleasant and capable, he especially relishes the camaraderie and common bond shared among those who took an oath, donned a uniform and served their country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ1AYVcAS7k