Nwa Pilots No Support Amfa?

[jetflier]

Where are you guys?

I am sick. Consign me to hell in the Canadair Loser jet if you will. Work rules suck and pay scales are pitiful. Now come YOUR Mechanics and you bail on them TOO. Guess Steenland has your support come the 20TH. Good luck when it's your turn.

No one is talking and revealing their hand from the NWA MEC.

IMO the NWA MEC will not honor the mechanics strike as the mechanic union did not honor the NWA pilots in 1998 during the lockout (strike).

Shutting down NWA entirely would cause CH11 to be immediate, so the Executives at NWA have contracted our nemisis, Champion Air to fly as many of NWA flights as possible if the pilots honor the AMFA strike.

ALPA says that NWA management says, "grieve it" if you don't like it........nice tone to our negotiations....eh....

I think NWA has the worst labor managers in the industry.

I doubt after all is said and done this fall , NWA will have many new exec and managers.

 

[Cactus-Wrench]

Perhaps if NWA ALPA said next week to the pilot group, unfortunately 50% of you are going to be let go, because we find wet leasing more attractive to our bottom line and the remaining 50% of you will need to take a 26 percent paycut,

Your tune might change!!

You might also look at a AMT's toolbox on the next mx base overnight and particular attention to all of the 1/4" tooling, and the next time you get your 750I oil changed at the bmw dealership, look at a techs tool box there and the lack of anything small let alone not metric. There again with all the certifications of auto's today h/r doesn't really care how many rudder pcu's, vsv's, ffg's, mec's or spoiler mixers you've rigged, it doesn't carry over.

YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING!!!

There are times to go on strike, and other times not to. You do not go on strike during hard economic times for you company. This is a sinking ship and you believe that we should put more torpedoes in it? If the pilots wanted to put up a fight, they wouldn't have renegotiated their own contract. C'mon people think!

Unions are dead. Haven't you been reading about the AFL-CIO? The unions of this country have pretty much outsourced a lot of labor from this country to China! When you go to Wal-Mart and by the $5 made in China t-shirt instead of the $7 made in America tshirt, I guess I should call you a scab for that too!

The pilot profession is dead. Mechanics will be paid more that pilots eventually...why? Because their talents can be crossed over to other professions. Why should a mechanic work for $50/hour at Continental when he can go to BMW and get $65/hour with better working conditions. Pilots don't have that luxury, and therefore will be paid less and less in the future until you are pretty much just a bus driver.

Let's say the pilots did threaten a walkout...the company declares bankrupcy the day before the strike and the contract that we DID negotiate is tossed in favor of us making something less than what UA pilots are currently making...HOW WOULD THAT HELP THE PILOT INDUSTRY?

The only rational that I see other carriers wishing that the NWA pilots walk is to see NWA go Chapt 13 and create a lot of supply for their own selfish purposes.

Let's see what our options are

A) cross the mechanics line and hope the company stays afloat

B) Honor the picket line and start a new career as a Wal-Mart greeter.

Uh, Gee, I think I'll take option A.

 

[SMMustang]

Perhaps if NWA ALPA said next week to the pilot group, unfortunately 50% of you are going to be let go, because we find wet leasing more attractive to our bottom line and the remaining 50% of you will need to take a 26 percent paycut,

Your tune might change!!

You might also look at a AMT's toolbox on the next mx base overnight and particular attention to all of the 1/4" tooling, and the next time you get your 750I oil changed at the bmw dealership, look at a techs tool box there and the lack of anything small let alone not metric. There again with all the certifications of auto's today h/r doesn't really care how many rudder pcu's, vsv's, ffg's, mec's or spoiler mixers you've rigged, it doesn't carry over.

Won't/Can't change my tune when I don't get a paycheck from them.

Being a mechanic is a toolset...it does carry over to some extent. Let's put it this way, when a mechanic and a pilot show up to get a job as an auto mechanic, who's going to get hired?

 

[WillowRunVortex]

Won't/Can't change my tune when I don't get a paycheck from them.

Being a mechanic is a toolset...it does carry over to some extent. Let's put it this way, when a mechanic and a pilot show up to get a job as an auto mechanic, who's going to get hired?

It doesnt matter if mech's can get other jobs,,,or the fact most pilots have trouble changing a light bulb in their home. The point is whats right is right and what's wrong is wrong. ALPA's mumbo jumbo, spin ,spin,spin, "here's why were not supporting the mech's" rhetoric doesnt change that fact.

 

[dbrownie]

Perhaps if NWA ALPA said next week to the pilot group, unfortunately 50% of you are going to be let go, because we find wet leasing more attractive to our bottom line and the remaining 50% of you will need to take a 26 percent paycut,

Your tune might change!!

Cactus-Wrench,

That has already started at the pilot group. We have lost tons of flying to contract companies, (Mesaba and Pinnacle). No other group has stepped up to stop it. I don't expect anyone to.

I think it sucks what is happening to the Mechs but the pilots are not going to solve their problem.

NWA Alpa had a independant financial study done by a outside company we offered the results to AMFA, AMFA said "no thanks". AMFA is playing hardball with a bunch of cornered rats and is going to be bit.

Mechanics have been lining up to become replacement workers. I thought it was just pilots who had no souls.

Flight attendants are in the same crappy boat. Replacement workers are being trained as we speak. It stinks.

Dave B

 

[WillowRunVortex]

Cactus-Wrench,

That has already started at the pilot group. We have lost tons of flying to contract companies, (Mesaba and Pinnacle). No other group has stepped up to stop it. I don't expect anyone to.



Dave B

I see DHC8 in your profile. You wouldnt happen to have been one of those awful Mesaba guys stealing main -line flying would you?

 

[dbrownie]

I see DHC8 in your profile. You wouldnt happen to have been one of those awful Mesaba guys stealing main -line flying would you?

WillowRunVortex,

Nah, My DHC8 time was done at Allegheny.

I also do not think Mesaba or Pinnacle have "stolen" anything. They are delt the hand of flying by the morons in MSP.

For what it is worth I think we are lucky to have Mesaba and Pinnacle. The pilots I have delt with have always been supportive of us.

They like us are just along for the ride.

Dave B

 

[crashpad]

The mech wiil get what they want because they have a strong union and solidarity. The additional cost will simply come out of the pilots salary/pension when NW files chapter 11 and copies UAL. Simple.

 

[furloughed dude]

The way I see it is that AMFA had the opportunity to deal with the company to some extent. They decided to play hard ball and now the company wants to bust the union. After the pilots took their first round of pay cuts, they hoped the rest of the unions would also make concessions since the company was losing millions. They not only wouldn't deal, they told the pilots to get out of their business.

Now the company is giving AMFA an offer they can't accept. It is hard to get a majority vote when you are wanting to boot 53% of their workgroup. I can't see any of these 53% voting "Yes, I am giving up my job, but I sure hope NWA makes it." The company is forcing a strike and they will outsource most of their jobs. Welcome to America..

IMO, the mechs had an opportunity to get a much better deal, but thumbed their nose at the company. Obviously, NWA plays hard ball. They are making the flight attendents train replacement workers in case they support the strike or refuse to deal.

I don't think the pilots or flight attendents will support the strike. It will be interesting to see how much operations will be affected. I am sure they already have contracts in place at outstations, so the real problem will be the hubs.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

The way I see it is that AMFA had the opportunity to deal with the company to some extent. They decided to play hard ball and now the company wants to bust the union. After the pilots took their first round of pay cuts, they hoped the rest of the unions would also make concessions since the company was losing millions. They not only wouldn't deal, they told the pilots to get out of their business.

Now the company is giving AMFA an offer they can't accept. It is hard to get a majority vote when you are wanting to boot 53% of their workgroup. I can't see any of these 53% voting "Yes, I am giving up my job, but I sure hope NWA makes it." The company is forcing a strike and they will outsource most of their jobs. Welcome to America..

IMO, the mechs had an opportunity to get a much better deal, but thumbed their nose at the company. Obviously, NWA plays hard ball. They are making the flight attendents train replacement workers in case they support the strike or refuse to deal.

I don't think the pilots or flight attendents will support the strike. It will be interesting to see how much operations will be affected. I am sure they already have contracts in place at outstations, so the real problem will be the hubs.

In the old days we played hardball too. Write-ups would have skyrocketed, tires would have worn out much faster, on time? forget it. Down-line sick, etc, etc. We're making our own bed folks. NWA management is dreaming up a way to use contract/replacement pilots, why wouldnt they? Obviously the pilot group got their balls snipped. Who WOULD except a 53% reduction? That is ludacris.

 

[320AV8R]

Back when you guy's walked out the last time, I was a mechanic at NWA. I do remember that our union tried to support the pilots. We were told by ALPA, "thanks but, no thanks." Consequently, you guy's walked and .............

We walked......try again. The Company left the bargaining table before noon, and would not respond to repeated attempts from the union to contact them. They, in essence, locked us out.

either way, don't blame the mechanics....

I didn't blame the mechanics.

320AV8R

 

[ohplease!]

We walked......try again. The Company left the bargaining table before noon, and would not respond to repeated attempts from the union to contact them. They, in essence, locked us out.


I didn't blame the mechanics.

320AV8R

Whatever lets you sleep at night.....

 

[320AV8R]

Whatever lets you sleep at night.....

I sleep just fine.

Like I posted before......everything is the pilot's fault. AIDS, the Third World Debt, SARS, most of the unrest in the Middle East, and of course ALL the Labor problems at NWA.

YOU GUYS changed unions and YOU GUYS negotiated the current levels of outsourcing in YOUR contract. YOU GUYS decided YOUR direction in the process. It's not OUR fault that they are training contract mechanics.

Don't get me wrong. NWA mechanics are some of the very best out there; including the military and another part 121 carrier I was with. The Company is on a scorched earth negotiating plan that involves ALL employee groups. You should direct your anger & frustrations at them...they're the ones responsible for the Employee Jihad.

320AV8R

 

[festus]

"Don't get me wrong. NWA mechanics are some of the very best out there; including the military and another part 121 carrier I was with. The Company is on a scorched earth negotiating plan that involves ALL employee groups. You should direct your anger & frustrations at them...they're the ones responsible for the Employee Jihad."

I agree with this statement. Don't let the employee groups turn on each other, it is only a distraction that employee's can't afford.

 

[Sameold]

What does it say in your (NWA pilots) contract?

I bet it is like most other contracts. It says the company will not fly other airlines struck work.

In return for that language the company had language put in that prohibits the pilots from getting involved in or striking on behalf of other employee groups at NWA.

In short, does your contract prohibit you from taking action if the mechanics go on strike or are locked out?

 

[NuGuy]

What does it say in your (NWA pilots) contract?

I bet it is like most other contracts. It says the company will not fly other airlines struck work.

In return for that language the company had language put in that prohibits the pilots from getting involved in or striking on behalf of other employee groups at NWA.

In short, does your contract prohibit you from taking action if the mechanics go on strike or are locked out?

Nope. In fact, the pilots are the ONLY employee group at NWA that still has the right to sympathy strike in their contract. The other groups sold theirs out long ago.

Nu

 

[IndyGTP]

Do you believe Steenland when he said the replacement workforce will have an average of 6 years experience on commercial aircraft? These scab companies have been recruiting new A&P's from school!! The kids right out of school are jumping on the opportunity to make $32/hr. Little do they know, its only hurting the profession and will drive wages down to the equivalent of a baggage handler.

As a pilot I would hope you guys refuse to fly anything you feel is unsafe or shady and don't refrain from writing something up if its bad.

 

[Tref]

WTF are you all arguing about???

NWA ALPA hasn't taken a position on the potential AMFA strike yet. It's been said at least once on this board, but I guess it bears repeating... NWA ALPA hasn't taken a position on whether or not it will continue to fly through an AMFA strike or not.

The logic is simple: Supporting either side of the negotiation gives that side a huge club to hold over the other one's head. Suppose NWA ALPA told the NWA EMT that they would stop all flights in the event of an AMFA strike and then AMFA turned around and demanded a 1000% raise. You can imagine the opposite scenario playing out as well, although I do think that Mgmt's demands are completely ridiculous and they are not bargaining in good faith, even now.

I REALLY hope that they can negotiate an agreement. I guess we'll see, but until then I hope everyone quits arguing about a decision that hasn't been made yet. Go ahead and say what you'd like to have happen, just quit talking like it's a done deal. You're polluting the information stream.

 

[slider]

NWA Nazi mgmt...

Check out this link from the MSP Star trib...

http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5548097.html

Is this typical NWA mgmt style? From the sounds of this article, it seems that this NWA mgmt regime is quite hostile towards the employee groups! If thats the case, how come ANYONE is still there!?!?!?!? I bet NWA mgmt just LOVES seeing their employee groups fighting amongst themselves.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

WTF are you all arguing about???


The logic is simple: Supporting either side of the negotiation gives that side a huge club to hold over the other one's head

Suppose NWA ALPA told the NWA EMT that they would stop all flights in the event of an AMFA strike and then AMFA turned around and demanded a 1000% raise. You can imagine the opposite scenario playing out as well, although I do think that Mgmt's demands are completely ridiculous and they are not bargaining in good faith, even now.

The consensus is that NWA ALPA will still fly, in fact if you call NWA contract negotiations right now, they will probably tell you that. Soooooooooooo, management is demanding the moon. Who needs the club? THE MECHANICS!