Nwa Pilots No Support Amfa?

[320AV8R]

Back when you guy's walked out the last time, I was a mechanic at NWA. I do remember that our union tried to support the pilots. We were told by ALPA, "thanks but, no thanks." Consequently, you guy's walked and .............

We walked......try again. The Company left the bargaining table before noon, and would not respond to repeated attempts from the union to contact them. They, in essence, locked us out.

either way, don't blame the mechanics....

I didn't blame the mechanics.

320AV8R

 

[ohplease!]

We walked......try again. The Company left the bargaining table before noon, and would not respond to repeated attempts from the union to contact them. They, in essence, locked us out.


I didn't blame the mechanics.

320AV8R

Whatever lets you sleep at night.....

 

[320AV8R]

Whatever lets you sleep at night.....

I sleep just fine.

Like I posted before......everything is the pilot's fault. AIDS, the Third World Debt, SARS, most of the unrest in the Middle East, and of course ALL the Labor problems at NWA.

YOU GUYS changed unions and YOU GUYS negotiated the current levels of outsourcing in YOUR contract. YOU GUYS decided YOUR direction in the process. It's not OUR fault that they are training contract mechanics.

Don't get me wrong. NWA mechanics are some of the very best out there; including the military and another part 121 carrier I was with. The Company is on a scorched earth negotiating plan that involves ALL employee groups. You should direct your anger & frustrations at them...they're the ones responsible for the Employee Jihad.

320AV8R

 

[festus]

"Don't get me wrong. NWA mechanics are some of the very best out there; including the military and another part 121 carrier I was with. The Company is on a scorched earth negotiating plan that involves ALL employee groups. You should direct your anger & frustrations at them...they're the ones responsible for the Employee Jihad."

I agree with this statement. Don't let the employee groups turn on each other, it is only a distraction that employee's can't afford.

 

[Sameold]

What does it say in your (NWA pilots) contract?

I bet it is like most other contracts. It says the company will not fly other airlines struck work.

In return for that language the company had language put in that prohibits the pilots from getting involved in or striking on behalf of other employee groups at NWA.

In short, does your contract prohibit you from taking action if the mechanics go on strike or are locked out?

 

[NuGuy]

What does it say in your (NWA pilots) contract?

I bet it is like most other contracts. It says the company will not fly other airlines struck work.

In return for that language the company had language put in that prohibits the pilots from getting involved in or striking on behalf of other employee groups at NWA.

In short, does your contract prohibit you from taking action if the mechanics go on strike or are locked out?

Nope. In fact, the pilots are the ONLY employee group at NWA that still has the right to sympathy strike in their contract. The other groups sold theirs out long ago.

Nu

 

[IndyGTP]

Do you believe Steenland when he said the replacement workforce will have an average of 6 years experience on commercial aircraft? These scab companies have been recruiting new A&P's from school!! The kids right out of school are jumping on the opportunity to make $32/hr. Little do they know, its only hurting the profession and will drive wages down to the equivalent of a baggage handler.

As a pilot I would hope you guys refuse to fly anything you feel is unsafe or shady and don't refrain from writing something up if its bad.

 

[Tref]

WTF are you all arguing about???

NWA ALPA hasn't taken a position on the potential AMFA strike yet. It's been said at least once on this board, but I guess it bears repeating... NWA ALPA hasn't taken a position on whether or not it will continue to fly through an AMFA strike or not.

The logic is simple: Supporting either side of the negotiation gives that side a huge club to hold over the other one's head. Suppose NWA ALPA told the NWA EMT that they would stop all flights in the event of an AMFA strike and then AMFA turned around and demanded a 1000% raise. You can imagine the opposite scenario playing out as well, although I do think that Mgmt's demands are completely ridiculous and they are not bargaining in good faith, even now.

I REALLY hope that they can negotiate an agreement. I guess we'll see, but until then I hope everyone quits arguing about a decision that hasn't been made yet. Go ahead and say what you'd like to have happen, just quit talking like it's a done deal. You're polluting the information stream.

 

[slider]

NWA Nazi mgmt...

Check out this link from the MSP Star trib...

http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5548097.html

Is this typical NWA mgmt style? From the sounds of this article, it seems that this NWA mgmt regime is quite hostile towards the employee groups! If thats the case, how come ANYONE is still there!?!?!?!? I bet NWA mgmt just LOVES seeing their employee groups fighting amongst themselves.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

WTF are you all arguing about???


The logic is simple: Supporting either side of the negotiation gives that side a huge club to hold over the other one's head

Suppose NWA ALPA told the NWA EMT that they would stop all flights in the event of an AMFA strike and then AMFA turned around and demanded a 1000% raise. You can imagine the opposite scenario playing out as well, although I do think that Mgmt's demands are completely ridiculous and they are not bargaining in good faith, even now.

The consensus is that NWA ALPA will still fly, in fact if you call NWA contract negotiations right now, they will probably tell you that. Soooooooooooo, management is demanding the moon. Who needs the club? THE MECHANICS!

 

[dbrownie]

As a pilot I would hope you guys refuse to fly anything you feel is unsafe or shady and don't refrain from writing something up if its bad.

IndyGTP;

We do that now and will keep doing it.

The jets now are LOADED with multiple MELs.

Most every flight is a major pain looking up what has to be done.

Sadly it won't get better any time soon.

Dave B

 

[~~~^~~~]

I see DHC8 in your profile. You wouldnt happen to have been one of those awful Mesaba guys stealing main -line flying would you?

Hey did the Mesaba guys write the scope that gave them your flying, or did your MEC? Did the Duane Woerth sign the contract with the NWA MEC Chair? Did your fellow NWA pilots ratify the contract, with its scope provisions?

I'm not sure why you are complaining to a guy who flew Dash 8's. It is not like any of his fellow regional pilots had anything to do with the scope the NWA Pilot Reps and ALPA National negotiated. It appears your own MEC is who you should be angry with.

I fully expect ALPA to fly through a strike when Duane Woerth gets his picture taken eating cake and ice cream with Continental scabs. ALPA has lost any sense of what a union should be.

"Willow Run Vortex" that is not a reference to some General Motors engine is it? If so, I'm going to change my screen name to SVT4ME.

~~~^~~~

 

[320AV8R]

IndyGTP said:

Do you believe Steenland when he said the replacement workforce will have an average of 6 years experience on commercial aircraft?

I don't believe anything Steenland says. But I do believe the other sources, including the Director of Flight Ops, along with the FAA. The FAA has been closely involved with the recruitment and certification process of the replacement mechanics.

These scab companies have been recruiting new A&P's from school!! The kids right out of school are jumping on the opportunity to make $32/hr.

What "school" are you refering to ?

What is your source for the new mechanics' background ?

The fact is, most of them ARE furloughed Part 121 A&Ps, mostly NWA, UAL, etc.... My friend lives next to one of them, who's got years of experience, and is furloughed from NWA. The active line mechanics admit that most of them are experienced as well.

320AV8R

 

[scabseeker]

That has already started at the pilot group. We have lost tons of flying to contract companies, (Mesaba and Pinnacle). No other group has stepped up to stop it. I don't expect anyone to.

Fliarous! How is any other group supposed to step up to stop it when the pilots themselves didn't in the last "bridge" agreement. No wonder you don't expect anyone to.

I can't believe I am agreeing with fins but on this one he is 100% correct.

 

[Clyde]

You forgot C) Wait until NWA decides to strong arm you guys by hiring/training replacement pilots.

They can threaten to do that, but it wouldn't work. Northwest has about what, 5400 pilots? What do they fly? B-747's (200's and 400's), B-757's DC-9's, A319/320's, A330's, and DC-10's? A lot of training on a lot of different airframes, including three positions on two different fleets.

Assuming the pilots walk, Northwest (or any airline) for that matter cannot possibly hire and train that many pilots fast enough to survive.

First, the airplanes do not fly, the revenue does not accumulate. If they were to hire scabs off the street, it would take them 3-5 days just to go through indoc. 3-5 days of airplanes just sitting around would sink them, especially given their currrent financial situation. You can hire current/qualified people, but they can't be put into the cockpit overnight. By the time the scabs are trained and ready, there wouldn't be anyplace to go.

Second, even though some managers would fly, it isn't nearly enough to cover the system, probably not even enough to keep the place from imploding on itself. Don't count on the regionals to pick up the slack either, they already have their hands full with their own flying. Besides, the most profitable international routes cannot be flown by the regionals anyway.

Third, PR. A strike isn't good PR under any circumstance. People hear of a strike and of an airline scrambling to replace it's pilots, the first things to come to mind are going to be safety and reliability. There is no shortage of competition out there, and most travelers would simply flock to other carriers. And don't think for a minute that the competition wouldn't add additional flights and airframes to cities impacted by a labor dispute.

Fourth, training costs. Where is NWA going to get the money to train 5400 scabs? They would bankrupt themselves just paying for the training expenses.