NWA pilots become regional pilots

[TinGoose1]

We may have lost flying to the regionals at my carrier, but we didn't create one from scratch. You guys in the redtail family are intensifying the whip saw by starting your own feeder to which you will shift flying. You are going to not only sacrifice your bottom guys with this TA, you will be opening the door for future scope relief. Yes, we have dropped the ball at other carriers, but you guys are lowering yourself to flying at regional with regional work rules/pay. I'm not for giving up scope, but you guys are giving flying away to a wholly owned sub of NWA. If those RJ's were going to be flown on the NWA list, that would make sense. Also, the only way to stop outsourcing of our flying to the regionals will be to increase their wages enough to not make them a viable alternative. You redtail guys are not only starting a new regional, you are doing so at wages that are under those regionals that already exist. This will only intensify the whipsaw at the regionals and drive their wages down, thereby incouraging management to outsource more of our flying. So yes, this TA will make you the winners in the race to the bottom.

-TG

 

[Bringupthebird]

How is the whole NWA saga any different from TWA 6 years ago? Didn't TWA pilots continue to give up money while soothing themselves with somewhat descent workrules? But in the end, did their sacrifices pay off? How is this any more optimistic?

 

[starvingredtail]

We may have lost flying to the regionals at my carrier, but we didn't create one from scratch. You guys in the redtail family are intensifying the whip saw by starting your own feeder to which you will shift flying. You are going to not only sacrifice your bottom guys with this TA, you will be opening the door for future scope relief. Yes, we have dropped the ball at other carriers, but you guys are lowering yourself to flying at regional with regional work rules/pay. I'm not for giving up scope, but you guys are giving flying away to a wholly owned sub of NWA. If those RJ's were going to be flown on the NWA list, that would make sense. Also, the only way to stop outsourcing of our flying to the regionals will be to increase their wages enough to not make them a viable alternative. You redtail guys are not only starting a new regional, you are doing so at wages that are under those regionals that already exist. This will only intensify the whipsaw at the regionals and drive their wages down, thereby incouraging management to outsource more of our flying. So yes, this TA will make you the winners in the race to the bottom.

-TG

I think you and I have the same make and model crystal ball

 

[Occam's Razor]

How is the whole NWA saga any different from TWA 6 years ago? Didn't TWA pilots continue to give up money while soothing themselves with somewhat descent workrules? But in the end, did their sacrifices pay off? How is this any more optimistic?

How about CAL in the 90's. How'd that work out? The American cuts a couple of years ago? NWA in 1993?

My theory: Different airlines and different circumstances often lead to different results.

What do you think?

 

[TinGoose1]

Your right, different airline different results. You guys are creating a new dynamic to our collective problem with this Compass regional. Several airlines have had to take concessions, but you redtailers are taking it one step further. Do you honestly think that outsourcing your junior pilots to Compass is going to work out? All your going to do is create a divide in our industry as well as your own seniority list. I'm sure this isn't going to stop you from voting yes on this POS TA any more than you can calm a drowning man. Just don't try to rationalize your paniced effort for self preservation. Your voting yes for only one reason, you think it will save YOUR job. Unfortunately, you are killing your career to save your job.

-TG

 

[((7))]

Goggles is that you again? Did Worthless give you a little air time from under his desk? You better scurry back under there before he starts squealing again or he might take those ALPA credit cards away.

 

[JAM-BRO]

XJ, Tin, Starving, spud...

First, this is not you fight!! So CHILL!!

XJ, didn't u guys at Mesaba take a paycut? How has that affected other regionals? I haven't heard of other cuts... We had a an XJ JS on a flight recently and the capt asked him if he would do his seat(DC9) for $80/hr and said yes without hesitating... What a sell out. Anyways, remember that we bought all your planes at XJ and PNCL...

Our TA is not very good in a lot of ways. Could we had done better? Maybe. Worse? HELL YES!! But to think that NWA pilots and NWA ALPA, by taking this TA, are going to ruin the career expectations of every pilot out there is the most moronic idea out there. The UAL contract has done a lot more damage to our previous contract and to our TA, than the other way around.They will be gunning for our TA for their next contract. I don't hear you guys mentioning that. Is it because you just don't have all the facts? More reason to keep your mouth shut!!!

I don't know how I am going to vote yet... But I'll bet that if we go and 'Take one for the team', and force the company to liquidate, as all of you are proffesing, that the next day you will all be lining up the fly the scraps of what NWA used to be...

Later

 

[Thedude]

XJ, Tin, Starving, spud...

First, this is not you fight!! So CHILL!!

Later

I am sorry, but this now is eveyones fight. NWA wrote the book on strike breaking and they are trying it again. I was at a NWA owned 727 operater and I left on my on free will. I do have a little understanding of what NWA is trying to do to mainline.How far does mainline have to go to subsidise the company...there has to be a point were the profession says , screw it...its time to liquid at start over.

I would like to see 50 seaters and greater at mainline. After I recover from drinking I will give you a little more of my mind.

 

[XJ-spartacus]

Jam-bro,

Two things: One, Mesaba pilots haven't taken a pay cut. I would bet my right knot that if our MEC TA's one it will be voted down. Mesaba pilots really have no were to retreat to, so I would doubt very much that they will cave in this 1113(c) process.
Second, if one of our guys said he would take your job in the jumpseat that was a little strange to say the least. I wouldn't even begin to attempt to defend someone that was that out of touch. I
The funny thing is that jumpseater made you mad by saying the obvious. Mesaba pilots aren't going to take your job on the nine, Compass pilots are. And the simple fact is that the NWA TA is creating Compass in an effort to alleviate their suffering, when in fact Compass will take your jobs. I'm not trying to poke the NWA guys in the eye here. I know that the line pilots didn't table this TA or negotiate it. But don't be misguided on where this TA is going to take all of our pilots. Mesaba, Pinnacle and NWA all need to have unity in this fight, or the next group to be standing outside the parking lot with signs will be yours. The NWA mechanics union was destroyed because they had no support from those around them. This situation isn't any different.
Like I said, I'm not bashing the pilots at NWA only the TA that was set before them. Although I know that the pilots at Mesaba don't have a say in what is voted on at NWA, the outcome of this vote will directly effect us. I just think that this TA will do more damage than good if it's ratified. Besides, is it true that the TA isn't in writing yet? I heard the other day that it is topic points only, with no specifics. Maybe you can shed some light on this if it's true.

-Spartacus

 

[IHateMgmt]

Xj-spartacus,

Sorry, but you don't work at NWA, you work at Mesaba. I don't think they are voting yea or nay on the TA on how it effects another company. People like you spouting this brand scope drivel are ones that are basically contract flying for another company. Wake up dude!

I am soo sick of NW guys telling us "sellout" regional guys that this is not our fight. Are you so narrow-minded to think that this TA will not DIRECTLY affect the future of XJ (and PNC and eventually every airline for that matter)? You fricken wake up, DUDE!

I think this TA is the best NWA is going to get. I do believe the company will eventually liquidate if the pilots don't agree. Some others disagree, and the vast majority don't work there. They always want someone to stand up and fight, yet people like you have worked for crap wages throughout your career (i.e., Mesaba).

You talk like you never worked for a regional (or something similar). What were you born into the majors? I believe I'm speaking for the majority of XJ pilots when I say I don't want to work at XJ my whole life. I'm paying my dues at the regionals until something opens up at the majors (just like you NW guys did at some point). So again, what you do at NW directly affects our current and future careers.

NWA guys are smart. They are voting with their head not misguided passions. Im not to worried about Delta either. Just a lot of grandstanding. All bluff and no stuff. We all live to fight another day

This should come as a pretty big warning sign when D'Angelo is agreeing with you. Don't know what I'm talking about? Search his posts.

This is the very reason you and your fellow regional pilots need to join us at the RJDC and stand up for OUR rights.

I hope you're joking.

XJ, Tin, Starving, spud...

First, this is not you fight!! So CHILL!!

XJ, didn't u guys at Mesaba take a paycut? How has that affected other regionals? I haven't heard of other cuts...

Hey JAM-BRO... get a F***ing clue!


I've said it before and I'll say it again, I do not want to see any more RJ's at XJ or Compass or anywhere besides the mainline. So do us all a favor and keep the flying where it belongs!