NWA pilots become regional pilots

[HalinTexas]

A watershed event ? I'm not so sure.



No it's not. It provides a direct input to the BOD on vital issues. Besides, that wasn't my point. TG said we're leading a race to the bottom. I gave examples of other carriers that would be "farther down" than us, if this TA is approved.

320AV8R

Did it keep you from going bankrupt? Uh, no.

Did it keep your union from taking HUGE concessions? Nope.

I'd have to conclude that being on the BOD did nothing for labor or the stockholders of NWA.

 

[320AV8R]

TG-
First of all, isn't the DC-9 going to be retired with the relief of this scope language?

No. The DC9 retirement is based on reaching the cycle limit. Mgmt laid out a DC9 retirement plan a few years ago, & has stuck pretty close to it. The "relief" has the first 35 aircraft going to Mesaba, to replace the AVROs, not DC9s.

If that is the case, how can the NWA pilots think that there won't be massive furloughs to go along with those disappearing aircraft?

That's not the case, & we don't think there will be massive furloughs. It has been stated that furloughs could be 150 or so, but they are so short of pilots now, they're canceling flights because of it. They are also calling guys on vacation, days off, etc.

The "sell out" of the junior pilots is a misconception. NO MAINLINE PILOTS that are flying today should be at Compass. Compass will be staffed by furloughed NWA pilots, with a flow through back to mainline when recalled. So, if you want to label a "flying job opportunity" a "sellout", it's your decision.

320AV8R

 

[320AV8R]

Did it keep you from going bankrupt? Uh, no.

No it didn't & I never implied that it could have.

Did it keep your union from taking HUGE concessions? Nope.

See above response.

I'd have to conclude that being on the BOD did nothing for labor or the stockholders of NWA.

I don't think it matters to the stockholders. For labor, the pilots in particular, it is a benefit. Certain decisions have been changed WRT our BOD imput. Our BOD rep is also on the finance committee, & has an idea of the direction Mgmt is taking WRT financing, (new aircraft purchases, etc...) and strategic planning. Having some information at this level is better than having none at all.

320AV8R

 

[furloughed dude]

Sorry Ihatemgmt, but it really doesn't matter to the vast majority at NWA if this TA effects Pinnacle or Mesaba. Pinnacle grew like a SOB while Northwest furloughed. And thanks for that offer to interview at Pinnacle and start at the bottom, I hope to never be that desparate. Also, I never worked at a regional, I got my training in the military.

Bottom line is that the TA sucks a big one. Everyone needs to choose what is best for them. I believe if the TA is voted down, the company will eventually liquidate. So, do you want to look for a new job in a tough market or take a huge cut in pay/workrules/scope? NWA held the line on scope for a long time, allowing only 36 jets with over 50 seats. Who else did this?

Sorry if this TA effects growth at your regional. Tough luck....

 

[ExAF]

Don't Assume

Everyone seems to think all of the furloughed NWA pilots and soon to be furloughed pilots are going to run to Compass. Don't be so sure. I for one don't plan to do any such thing. I would rather work at Home Depot and be home every night than work under the conditions that Compass will have. I'm willing to bet that I'm not the only one who feels that way. It is not a pride thing, merely a quality of life thing. I've flown airplanes for over 26 years and love to fly. There comes a point where the cost to family and quality of life just isn't worth it any more. Cheers!

 

[titans10]

As a furloughed person I am not going to go and fly at compass or mesaba or anyother regional. I say vote the TA down and keep the flying at mainline or close it down. Don't let the dc9 flying go anywhere else. If we give this up then mgnt will outsource more and more dc9 flying. I will stay at my present job before flying for compass and them mgnt selling it like midatlantic was.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

If US airways and United had died like they were supposed to, we would have be able to keep industry leading contracts. The TA is an industry standard contract, even if NWA strikes it doesn't matter, the bar has already been lowered. The TA puts NWA into a competitive position. If you compare SWA labor to NWA, you could make the comparison that labor is not the answer, however the legacy business model has to cut costs through labor as we'll as other areas. This is business, if one company is doing something and getting business, you have to do the same thing to be competitive. Voting for the TA or against it is a lost cause, whether or not it passes, it will not raise or lower the bar any further.

 

[Flyerjosh]

Does anybody else find it ironic that one of the pushes as of late by ALPA national has been to "regain" regional type flying (70 seats and larger) back at the mainline carriers and protect larger aircraft (DC9/MD80/717 size), but here is NWA and ALPA ready to spin off all of this flying in 90 seat sized equipment?

Helloooooo! Left Hand! This is your Right Hand! Do you hear me?

 

[Mugs]

If US airways and United had died like they were supposed to, we would have be able to keep industry leading contracts. The TA is an industry standard contract, even if NWA strikes it doesn't matter, the bar has already been lowered. The TA puts NWA into a competitive position. If you compare SWA labor to NWA, you could make the comparison that labor is not the answer, however the legacy business model has to cut costs through labor as we'll as other areas. This is business, if one company is doing something and getting business, you have to do the same thing to be competitive. Voting for the TA or against it is a lost cause, whether or not it passes, it will not raise or lower the bar any further.

Talk about putting your head in the sand. The USAir / UAL comment is like saying the industry as a whole would have been fine forever if 9-11 had just never happened. As the capacity would have rather quickly returned in the wake of those carriers, you would have found yourself competeing with far more LCC type of competition. Of all the CH11 legacy carriers of late, none faced less LCC competition than Northwest. I'm sure things would have been just rosy in the future facing a flood of it while riding on those industry leading contracts.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Does anybody else find it ironic that one of the pushes as of late by ALPA national has been to "regain" regional type flying (70 seats and larger) back at the mainline carriers and protect larger aircraft (DC9/MD80/717 size), but here is NWA and ALPA ready to spin off all of this flying in 90 seat sized equipment?

Helloooooo! Left Hand! This is your Right Hand! Do you hear me?

Part of union rhetoric is telling you what you want to hear. They are selling you a product you know.

 

[LivinDaDream]

Wake Up!!!

Any NWA and XJ guys fighting on this issue need to sit back, breath and then fight with the real enemy...NWA Management and the XJ puppets.

Compass only exsists because the XJ Pilot Group has shown the A$$holes at the top that they will die on this sword. If NWA Mgmnt believed that the XJ pilots would cave, there would be no need for compass. XJ has it's dumba$$es like we all do, but that pilot group WILL shut it down, if that it is what it takes to send the message.

If the NWA guys do the same during this TA vote, the options for the Puppeteers go way down. Compass cannot survive without NWA, Independence already tried this.

Get your acts together, regardless of DG's stupid vote, and kick NWA in the Nads. If you start fighting between the pilot groups, you might as well consider yourselves the enemy, because you are defeating your own cause.

 

[FLYLOW22]

If US airways and United had died like they were supposed to...

Guess your informed source was wrong. Any other things we can bank our careers on? Maybe you can throw some chicken bones down on a trash can lid and see if Branson will get the green to run with Virgin America?

I do see one thing happening... we are all getting the squeeze and doing nothing to help ourselves. We bite at management tricks more than a hungry dog at a leg of lamb.

It is big businesses way to beat us by using us to beat us for them. All they have to do is set up the scenario (NWA-Compass) and labor does the rest for them... every time.

This "career" is well on it's way to becoming a part-time job that pays part-time to be away from home full-time. It used to be so much more.

Apathy... It's weak.

 

[Bringupthebird]

If US airways and United had died like they were supposed to, we would have be able to keep industry leading contracts. The TA is an industry standard contract, even if NWA strikes it doesn't matter, the bar has already been lowered. The TA puts NWA into a competitive position. If you compare SWA labor to NWA, you could make the comparison that labor is not the answer, however the legacy business model has to cut costs through labor as we'll as other areas. This is business, if one company is doing something and getting business, you have to do the same thing to be competitive. Voting for the TA or against it is a lost cause, whether or not it passes, it will not raise or lower the bar any further.

Is having your spine removed considered "elective surgery"? Suppose, just suppose, that NWA faced a full-blown pilot strike and it began costing them huge. Do you think they would quickly find other means of achieving profitablility? Why should they explore other options beforehand? They've got 51% of the pilots ready to help them out.

Hammering the pilots is done, like the dog that licks itself, because it can be. So far fear is very inexpensive and seems to be very effective if you listen to the likes of Occam, et. al.. He has absolutely no idea how big it will be, but he's sure he's going to get his half a loaf. Even if it's one crumb at a time.

 

[Dodge]

Having a BOD seat? That worked out really well for UAL. Perhaps the NWA employees are more business savvy than their United counterparts, but I suspect that they are pilots, FA's, mechanic just the same. United has just about the lowest pay in the industry. Maybe the NWA pilots will do better; the bar has been set pretty low.

My guess is that NWA will furlough another 1000 by the time Compass is at full capacity and talks of concessions on this TA will be running rampant. That being said, good luck NWA pilots, the rest of ALPA is counting on you not to fold like the French. I believe that is a corner stone of a Unions' philosophy for exsisting in the first place.

 

[320AV8R]

Having a BOD seat? That worked out really well for UAL. Perhaps the NWA employees are more business savvy than their United counterparts, but I suspect that they are pilots, FA's, mechanic just the same

FAs & mechanics no longer have a BOD seat. You seem well informed.

My guess is that NWA will furlough another 1000 by the time Compass is at full capacity and

Exactly.... it's your guess. You have no clue.

320AV8R

 

[Dodge]

320av8r,

I was refering to UAL's BOD make up some years ago. I don't currently know what UAL's, but I do know that the decisions they made or let their management teams make, landed them squarely in the poor house. I hope that the NWA pilot on the BOD is a little wiser than his mirror at UAL was.

You are also correct in stating that I have no clue as to the future. I do not. I have a guess as to the amount of outsourcing that your pilots are in the process of voting in. Hopefully your furloughs will have a job at the new NWA commuter. Best wishes.

 

[Mugs]

320av8r,

I was refering to UAL's BOD make up some years ago. I don't currently know what UAL's, but I do know that the decisions they made or let their management teams make, landed them squarely in the poor house. I hope that the NWA pilot on the BOD is a little wiser than his mirror at UAL was.
.

"The decisions they made or let their management teams make" --- like offer $62 a share for USAir when it was trading at $30. All while ignoring settling pilot, mechanic, and other labor contracts before annoncing the deal. Then Avolar,....we could go on. As one analyst said, it was the least employee influenced employee ownership he had ever seen. Try again.

 

[Occam's Razor]

So far fear is very inexpensive and seems to be very effective if you listen to the likes of Occam, et. al..

Actually, the "fear" piece seems to be played by the crowd screaming NO!.

"If this gets approved the industry is lost!"

"You're lowering the bar!"

Laughable when you compare this T/A with where USAirways and United are...and where Delta will probably be.

 

[FlyingFarmer]

Hey Occam! Have you checked out what's happening at Delta? Perhaps you could enlighten us on how your carrier is different?


edited because I'm working on my kharma

 

[Dodge]

"The decisions they made or let their management teams make" --- like offer $62 a share for USAir when it was trading at $30. All while ignoring settling pilot, mechanic, and other labor contracts before annoncing the deal. Then Avolar,....we could go on. As one analyst said, it was the least employee influenced employee ownership he had ever seen. Try again.

Maybe I am way off here. Did the pilots not sit on the Board at UAL when all this was going down? If they did, this proves my point that a BOD seat for ALPA is laughable at best. If the UAL pilots were of no part of these debacles, I stand corrected.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Maybe I am way off here. Did the pilots not sit on the Board at UAL when all this was going down? If they did, this proves my point that a BOD seat for ALPA is laughable at best. If the UAL pilots were of no part of these debacles, I stand corrected.

A BOD seat is like radar. It's only as effective as the operator.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Hey Occam! Have you checked out what's happening at Delta? Perhaps you could enlighten us on how your carrier is different?


edited because I'm working on my kharma

Ha! If you only knew!

Why yes...I have checked-out what's happening at Delta. They just completed a successful strike ballot. It was a percentage point or two above ours, I think.

You will hit a decision point on April 15th.

Either outcome leads to negotiations.

I wish you luck. And ironically, I have more to say about that then you know!

Ha!

[thanks for the karma-friendly edit]

 

[ERJFO]

Xj-spartacus,

Sorry, but you don't work at NWA, you work at Mesaba. I don't think they are voting yea or nay on the TA on how it effects another company. People like you spouting this brand scope drivel are ones that are basically contract flying for another company. Wake up dude!

I think this TA is the best NWA is going to get. I do believe the company will eventually liquidate if the pilots don't agree. Some others disagree, and the vast majority don't work there. They always want someone to stand up and fight, yet people like you have worked for crap wages throughout your career (i.e., Mesaba).

Maybe it should liquidate then... If theese guys stood up and shut the place down instead of working for SH#T we would all be better off.

 

[stb]

Sure this has been brought up before but this whole NWA deal looks like the Mid Atlantic deal at USAirways. Buyer beware....

 

[DTW320]

Maybe it should liquidate then... If theese guys stood up and shut the place down instead of working for SH#T we would all be better off.

This posted by an EMB-145 FO. Now THAT'S Funny.

What are u makin in the right seat of that jungle jet? And if we all agree that the answer to that = SH#T then why aren't YOU "shutting the place down"?

 

[XJohXJ]

Deleted..

Good luck guys.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Maybe it should liquidate then... If theese guys stood up and shut the place down instead of working for SH#T we would all be better off.

...............Emb-145..................f/o...................I wonder what airlines name is painted on the side of his plane? Cause I know it is not the one that his paycheck has printed on it.

 

[320AV8R]

Maybe it should liquidate then... If theese guys stood up and shut the place down instead of working for SH#T we would all be better off.

I guess YOU don't have a dog in this fight.

WE would be better off?

What type of SH!T wages are YOU working for?

320AV8R