NWA/DAL what's the sentiment?

[Diesel-9]

I live in Texas. Family is healthy. Have a couple friends who have had cancer surgury and would have cost them $1000's on the plan we may go to in 2010 although I think our plan will also be an option then for all. Looking at the numbers, I would have to save $500 a month for my 10 years to go to 60 so I wouldn't have to pay the retired pilot health care premium cost out of retirement pay cash flow over my life expectancy. This deal makes the military retirement healthcare even more valuable. P.S. Equity chunk? What amount is projected? $5000-$10000?

 

[General Lee]

I live in Texas. Family is healthy. Have a couple friends who have had cancer surgury and would have cost them $1000's on the plan we may go to in 2010 although I think our plan will also be an option then for all. Looking at the numbers, I would have to save $500 a month for my 10 years to go to 60 so I wouldn't have to pay the retired pilot health care premium cost out of retirement pay cash flow over my life expectancy. This deal makes the military retirement healthcare even more valuable. P.S. Equity chunk? What amount is projected? $5000-$10000?

I thought the equity chunk was a lot more than that... When we left BK and came out with new stock, I got over $200,000. It may not be that much, and it would be pre-tax and some of it would go to fill your 401k limit, but I would think you would get something in cash too. I know certain things pop up in life, but I have never had a problem with our Gold HRA, and I don't think there are large deductibles etc, and emergency room visits are not that expensive. Not too bad, but it would be nicer if it was all free....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

Yea, I'm a wavering "yes". It won't take much more to push me into a no.

Reasons:

No time and a half over 80

Lower caps

Poor phase in of the DC plan. Middle seniority people get slammed.

Inability to bid green slip flying sooner than the day before, and even then the system VASTLY favors non-commuters.

VASTLY increased health care costs

JS rules/booking stink

Geriatric PBS software for bidding.

Add all of it up, and the parity/raise gets eaten up pretty quick.

Nu

 

[Superpilot92]

I thought the equity chunk was a lot more than that... When we left BK and came out with new stock, I got over $200,000. It may not be that much, and it would be pre-tax and some of it would go to fill your 401k limit, but I would think you would get something in cash too. I know certain things pop up in life, but I have never had a problem with our Gold HRA, and I don't think there are large deductibles etc, and emergency room visits are not that expensive. Not too bad, but it would be nicer if it was all free....


Bye Bye--General Lee

Werent they tossing numbers around at being less than 20k for the equity payout this go around?

 

[General Lee]

Heyas,

Yea, I'm a wavering "yes". It won't take much more to push me into a no.

Reasons:

No time and a half over 80

Lower caps

Poor phase in of the DC plan. Middle seniority people get slammed.

Inability to bid green slip flying sooner than the day before, and even then the system VASTLY favors non-commuters.

VASTLY increased health care costs

JS rules/booking stink

Geriatric PBS software for bidding.

Add all of it up, and the parity/raise gets eaten up pretty quick.

Nu

Most of what you say is true. But, the greenslipping happens when something pops up and scheduling can't cover it with reserves. Of course people nearby would be able to cover it sooner. You can put in for greenslips and give limitations, like I need 4 hours notice, and if you are senior and they have more than 4 hours before the flight, you could get called. The jumpseat rules aren't bad at DL, you still can get the jumpseat over the phone 4 days prior, and you can get excused for a trip if you can't get there and give yourself at least one back up. Flight attendant jumpseats are usable too if no stew is there. Your DC phase in is because most of you still have some sort of frozen pension. And, the PBS software is not bad, actually it is fairly easy.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[hockeypilot44]

Do probationary pilots get to vote?

 

[General Lee]

Werent they tossing numbers around at being less than 20k for the equity payout this go around?

I guess it depends on how much we are "worth" when we merge. If we get 3.?% and you get 2.4% (?), and the combined company is worth $1 billion, then yes, we won't get much.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Do probationary pilots get to vote?

I don't think so.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NuGuy]

Most of what you say is true. But, the greenslipping happens when something pops up and scheduling can't cover it with reserves. Of course people nearby would be able to cover it sooner. You can put in for greenslips and give limitations, like I need 4 hours notice, and if you are senior and they have more than 4 hours before the flight, you could get called. The jumpseat rules aren't bad at DL, you still can get the jumpseat over the phone 4 days prior, and you can get excused for a trip if you can't get there and give yourself at least one back up. Flight attendant jumpseats are usable too if no stew is there. Your DC phase in is because most of you still have some sort of frozen pension. And, the PBS software is not bad, actually it is fairly easy.

JS:
10.5 days ahead >>> than what DL has, PLUS we can book it on the internet, and have it done with 3rd party software unattended.

Call-in-honest policy is better as well.

MUCH better

Health Insurance
Half the premiums for a superior product with lower deductibles and higher caps

MUCH better

Premium pay for all over 80

MUCH better

Our PBS software (Carmen) is 4 generations past what CLASSbid is. We were using that back in 1998 when NWA was writing the book on PBS, with over 98% bid satisfaction.

Only a fraction of the NWA pilot group has anything close to a full frozen pension. The numbers add up, but it takes another chunk out of "parity".

Even if we were to sell our SLI as the DAL guys seem to want us to do "for parity", I don't see ANYTHING in this agreement worth giving up an inch on the SLI for.

After crunching the numbers, it is, at best, a push with a slight raise in 09. 20k equity at best for senior guys.

Nu

 

[Lucky Strike]

Werent they tossing numbers around at being less than 20k for the equity payout this go around?

Yes...about 20k

 

[hockeypilot44]

In case you guys haven't notice, the bottom has fallen out of our stocks. We're heading further and further down every week. I wouldn't expect a lot in equity payout. This agreement is not very good. We should vote it down, then try and get the best of both worlds.

 

[Diesel-9]

Think people are getting an idea of the things to look at and improve on at the earliest opportunity. I'm sure Uncle Richard will come to us soon asking for relief on something. We should have all these areas mentioned prioritized to negotiate with. My pref would be the Thai F/A clause.

 

[Superpilot92]

Yes...about 20k

The senior guys are better punching out and getting grandfathered in under NWA retirement medical benefits then they are with staying and getting the equity then. (Assuming they need the medical benefits from either company)

 

[Diesel-9]

What is the cutoff date to retire under the NWA plan? Is it the DCC? When is the equity payout determined as far as having to be on the property? Heard a few people say they have heard there are 350+ people with their retirement papers on their desk at home waiting to see what happens before punching. Hope it is true. Nice to dream about it.

 

[Superpilot92]

What is the cutoff date to retire under the NWA plan? Is it the DCC? When is the equity payout determined as far as having to be on the property? Heard a few people say they have heard there are 350+ people with their retirement papers on their desk at home waiting to see what happens before punching. Hope it is true. Nice to dream about it.

Its DCC

"Your retiree medical coverage will be based on whether you retire as a NWA pilot or if you retire as a Delta pilot. That status is based on whether you retire before or after DCC.
Pilots who retire prior to DCC, whether early, late or normal, will be grandfathered into the coverage under the same terms and conditions as defined in the NWA CBA. This means you will have the same medical plan and at the same premium sharing as a current retiree at NWA regardless of any changes that occur in the future. However, you will never have access to the Delta alternate options.
Pilots who retire after DCC will be considered to have retired as Delta pilots and will be covered under the provisions of the JCBA as a DAL pilot. Under the JCBA, there is [FONT=Arial,Arial]NO SUBSIDY [/FONT]for medical and dental premiums for pilots retiring early until those pilots reach age 60. Prior to age 60, early retirees must pay 100% of the applicable premium. Once the early retiree reaches age 60, he/she will pay 51% of the applicable premium."

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

It looks like that DAL has junior manning, or inverse assignement or whatever they want to call it.

I had to deal with junior manning at my last regional, and I have no desire to deal with it again. It can make your life a living hell, no matter how they try to compensate you. They ALWAYS call/ACARS/find you at the gate on the one day you had something planned.

I just slipped into the no column. DAL contract better? Pfftt...maybe in payrates, but everything else is par or below.

Nu

 

[Superpilot92]

Heyas,

It looks like that DAL has junior manning, or inverse assignement or whatever they want to call it.

I had to deal with junior manning at my last regional, and I have no desire to deal with it again. It can make your life a living hell, no matter how they try to compensate you. They ALWAYS call/ACARS/find you at the gate on the one day you had something planned.

I just slipped into the no column. DAL contract better? Pfftt...maybe in payrates, but everything else is par or below.

Nu

The question is how often do they junior man? I had it at my old regional and NEVER got junior manned. Proper-staffing limits that occurrence, i agree it sucks if abused though.

 

[JohnQ]

Geriatric PBS software for bidding.

I can't really comment on the rest of it, but trust me when I tell you that NavTech's CLASS is the only decent PBS product out there. Our guys love it, and a lot of that is because we (Delta, DALPA) have partnered with NavTech to make an already good product better.

With CLASS, there is no "globalization" (translation: a violation of a senior pilot's seniority so as to create more lines for junior guys) no "points" and best of all, there is a reasons report that details every one of your bid preferences and exactly why you did or did not get what you wanted.

It is a great system and after the learning curve I think you will enjoy it.

 

[Diesel-9]

I'm leaning no also. Way too much left behind. Little if any cost. R.A. needs this deal fast. We have leverage. He is running out of time and cash. We are holding a full house and he has a pair of 3's. Fights on!

 

[JohnQ]

Heyas,

It looks like that DAL has junior manning, or inverse assignement or whatever they want to call it.

I had to deal with junior manning at my last regional, and I have no desire to deal with it again. It can make your life a living hell, no matter how they try to compensate you. They ALWAYS call/ACARS/find you at the gate on the one day you had something planned.

I just slipped into the no column. DAL contract better? Pfftt...maybe in payrates, but everything else is par or below.

Nu

I have been at DAL 11+ year, and have never once been IAd. Only once in that time has scheduling ever even tried, and then I just did not answer the phone.

Does it happen? Of course. But it is rare. With green slips going back to double pay the need for scheduling to IA will plummet. In fact the reason that you have them now is because guys are actually not putting in for green slips (which currently pay time and a half, but with the TA will go back to double pay like they used to be) and are actually hoping for IAs, because they still pay double.

This will not be a big issue at DAL, trust me.