NWA/DAL what's the sentiment?

[hockeypilot44]

In case you guys haven't notice, the bottom has fallen out of our stocks. We're heading further and further down every week. I wouldn't expect a lot in equity payout. This agreement is not very good. We should vote it down, then try and get the best of both worlds.

 

[Diesel-9]

Think people are getting an idea of the things to look at and improve on at the earliest opportunity. I'm sure Uncle Richard will come to us soon asking for relief on something. We should have all these areas mentioned prioritized to negotiate with. My pref would be the Thai F/A clause.

 

[Superpilot92]

Yes...about 20k

The senior guys are better punching out and getting grandfathered in under NWA retirement medical benefits then they are with staying and getting the equity then. (Assuming they need the medical benefits from either company)

 

[Diesel-9]

What is the cutoff date to retire under the NWA plan? Is it the DCC? When is the equity payout determined as far as having to be on the property? Heard a few people say they have heard there are 350+ people with their retirement papers on their desk at home waiting to see what happens before punching. Hope it is true. Nice to dream about it.

 

[Superpilot92]

What is the cutoff date to retire under the NWA plan? Is it the DCC? When is the equity payout determined as far as having to be on the property? Heard a few people say they have heard there are 350+ people with their retirement papers on their desk at home waiting to see what happens before punching. Hope it is true. Nice to dream about it.

Its DCC

"Your retiree medical coverage will be based on whether you retire as a NWA pilot or if you retire as a Delta pilot. That status is based on whether you retire before or after DCC.
Pilots who retire prior to DCC, whether early, late or normal, will be grandfathered into the coverage under the same terms and conditions as defined in the NWA CBA. This means you will have the same medical plan and at the same premium sharing as a current retiree at NWA regardless of any changes that occur in the future. However, you will never have access to the Delta alternate options.
Pilots who retire after DCC will be considered to have retired as Delta pilots and will be covered under the provisions of the JCBA as a DAL pilot. Under the JCBA, there is [FONT=Arial,Arial]NO SUBSIDY [/FONT]for medical and dental premiums for pilots retiring early until those pilots reach age 60. Prior to age 60, early retirees must pay 100% of the applicable premium. Once the early retiree reaches age 60, he/she will pay 51% of the applicable premium."

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

It looks like that DAL has junior manning, or inverse assignement or whatever they want to call it.

I had to deal with junior manning at my last regional, and I have no desire to deal with it again. It can make your life a living hell, no matter how they try to compensate you. They ALWAYS call/ACARS/find you at the gate on the one day you had something planned.

I just slipped into the no column. DAL contract better? Pfftt...maybe in payrates, but everything else is par or below.

Nu

 

[Superpilot92]

Heyas,

It looks like that DAL has junior manning, or inverse assignement or whatever they want to call it.

I had to deal with junior manning at my last regional, and I have no desire to deal with it again. It can make your life a living hell, no matter how they try to compensate you. They ALWAYS call/ACARS/find you at the gate on the one day you had something planned.

I just slipped into the no column. DAL contract better? Pfftt...maybe in payrates, but everything else is par or below.

Nu

The question is how often do they junior man? I had it at my old regional and NEVER got junior manned. Proper-staffing limits that occurrence, i agree it sucks if abused though.

 

[JohnQ]

Geriatric PBS software for bidding.

I can't really comment on the rest of it, but trust me when I tell you that NavTech's CLASS is the only decent PBS product out there. Our guys love it, and a lot of that is because we (Delta, DALPA) have partnered with NavTech to make an already good product better.

With CLASS, there is no "globalization" (translation: a violation of a senior pilot's seniority so as to create more lines for junior guys) no "points" and best of all, there is a reasons report that details every one of your bid preferences and exactly why you did or did not get what you wanted.

It is a great system and after the learning curve I think you will enjoy it.

 

[Diesel-9]

I'm leaning no also. Way too much left behind. Little if any cost. R.A. needs this deal fast. We have leverage. He is running out of time and cash. We are holding a full house and he has a pair of 3's. Fights on!

 

[JohnQ]

Heyas,

It looks like that DAL has junior manning, or inverse assignement or whatever they want to call it.

I had to deal with junior manning at my last regional, and I have no desire to deal with it again. It can make your life a living hell, no matter how they try to compensate you. They ALWAYS call/ACARS/find you at the gate on the one day you had something planned.

I just slipped into the no column. DAL contract better? Pfftt...maybe in payrates, but everything else is par or below.

Nu

I have been at DAL 11+ year, and have never once been IAd. Only once in that time has scheduling ever even tried, and then I just did not answer the phone.

Does it happen? Of course. But it is rare. With green slips going back to double pay the need for scheduling to IA will plummet. In fact the reason that you have them now is because guys are actually not putting in for green slips (which currently pay time and a half, but with the TA will go back to double pay like they used to be) and are actually hoping for IAs, because they still pay double.

This will not be a big issue at DAL, trust me.

 

[800Dog]

I'm leaning no also. Way too much left behind. Little if any cost. R.A. needs this deal fast. We have leverage. He is running out of time and cash. We are holding a full house and he has a pair of 3's. Fights on!

With you. Voting no as the duration is too long and SLI is unsettled. Always in the minority at DAL though!

 

[Diesel-9]

Have you guys ever tried to get positive space for a green slip? Think that would be easy to get. Would make some of your guys who are against our 10.5 day jumpseat booking policy feel better.

 

[ugasucks]

I got rerouted 4 times on my last trip and juior manned at the end for a round trip. But I did get paid assignment pay for the junior man, but it still sucked. gotta love the 88.

 

[NuGuy]

I can't really comment on the rest of it, but trust me when I tell you that NavTech's CLASS is the only decent PBS product out there. Our guys love it, and a lot of that is because we (Delta, DALPA) have partnered with NavTech to make an already good product better.

With CLASS, there is no "globalization" (translation: a violation of a senior pilot's seniority so as to create more lines for junior guys) no "points" and best of all, there is a reasons report that details every one of your bid preferences and exactly why you did or did not get what you wanted.

It is a great system and after the learning curve I think you will enjoy it.

CLASS is what NWA left 5 years ago. NWA actually owned CLASS at one point, but moved on.

Our new system has those features and more.

It was a huge leap forward. Going back to CLASS is 3 steps backwards.

Not impressed.

Nu

 

[JohnQ]

Our PBS software (Carmen) is 4 generations past what CLASSbid is. We were using that back in 1998 when NWA was writing the book on PBS, with over 98% bid satisfaction.

We looked closely at CARMEN. Our flight attendants have it. They hate it. It is a nightmare. It is full of "globalization," ridiculous points algorithms, etc. It takes days to get a result, and after all that time, the one and only result is presented for you to take it and like it.

That is not how we use CLASS at DAL. It may be simpler, but it is more effective for the pilot group and absolutely honors seniority.

I had a former CAL guy (now DAL) tell me that CLASS was vastly superior to CARMEN in the interface and most importantly, the results. He was always getting preferences denied due to "globalization" (i.e. "sorry, you are indeed senior enough to be awarded this trip, and it is indeed available; however, you don't get it so a pilot 100 numbers junior to you in the category can get a regular line"). That never happens with CLASS. We (ALPA) won't allow it.

After the company does a bid run, it goes to ALPA for oversight. We frequently reject the bid runs and send it back. The company then tweaks some parameters and runs it again.

Bottom line: no bid run is ever released to a category without ALPA signing off on it first.

Also, things have changed with CLASS since ten years ago. You may be pleasantly surprised with the product we now have.