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NWA/DAL negotiations update

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..... if NWALPA and DALALPA worked out a joint contract TOGETHER and presented it to DAL MGMT but DAL MGMT starts dragging their feet and saying NWA will be brought up over time what would the DALAPA stance be?

WE (both groups) HAD a JOINT CONTRACT in Feb. If DALPA was really interested in UNITY, they would have solved the outstanding issues AT THAT TIME, instead of eating out of Anderson's hand; leaving us in the dust.

DALPA's credibility is gone WRT taking a stand against DAL Mgmt now; they've already made their bed with LOA 19.

The "feet dragging" (aka DELAY TACTICS) have already begun. Note the enourmous support we don't have from Lee & the DALPA boys.

The NWA pilots are on their own. We're big boys, we'll be fine.
 
WE (both groups) HAD a JOINT CONTRACT in Feb. If DALPA was really interested in UNITY, they would have solved the outstanding issues AT THAT TIME, instead of eating out of Anderson's hand; leaving us in the dust.

DALPA's credibility is gone WRT taking a stand against DAL Mgmt now; they've already made their bed with LOA 19.

The "feet dragging" (aka DELAY TACTICS) have already begun. Note the enourmous support we don't have from Lee & the DALPA boys.

The NWA pilots are on their own. We're big boys, we'll be fine.

Well, then I think that the answer is obvious. Tank the deal. You have the power, right? Nope. It's going through. If you don't come around, there will be raises for only Delta pilots in 2009. If you don't come around, there will be layoffs at NWA, compass will be shut down, and arbitration will be the result, and the result will not be pretty.

Stall away, or better yet, do everything that you can to tank the deal. It will only benefit the Delta pilots.

Yeah, we're big boys, except when it comes to whining on an anonymous message board.:crying:
 
Well, then I think that the answer is obvious. Tank the deal. You have the power, right? Nope. It's going through. If you don't come around, there will be raises for only Delta pilots in 2009. If you don't come around, there will be layoffs at NWA, compass will be shut down, and arbitration will be the result, and the result will not be pretty.

Stall away, or better yet, do everything that you can to tank the deal. It will only benefit the Delta pilots.

Yeah, we're big boys, except when it comes to whining on an anonymous message board.:crying:

Your post is exactly what my question was fishing for. DALALPA and SOME of you DAL guys act like its acceptable to strongarm us. If we dont "agree" then you state things will be bad for us at NWA. Your mentality is exactly why SOME of the NWA guys are skeptical of DALALPA and DAL Mgmts s intentions. I give you guys the benefit of the doubt but take a step back and read what you wrote and tell me if the shoe was on the other foot, what would you think. Serious answer please.
 
Well, then I think that the answer is obvious. Tank the deal. You have the power, right? Nope. It's going through. If you don't come around, there will be raises for only Delta pilots in 2009. If you don't come around, there will be layoffs at NWA, compass will be shut down, and arbitration will be the result, and the result will not be pretty.

Stall away, or better yet, do everything that you can to tank the deal. It will only benefit the Delta pilots.

Yeah, we're big boys, except when it comes to whining on an anonymous message board.:crying:

Puff

Let me make it CRYSTAL for you... Our scope has restriction too. Unless there is a joint contract AND an SLI, NO ONE BUT NWA PILOTS touch our planes or routes... So yes, you get your pay raise but it's a sinking ship if we are not brought on board soon... Parking planes right now is an issue of gas, not the merger. Furloughs(Hopefully not) can happen on either side.

I think it behooves your side to get our side on the boat... Join us and start rowing....
 
Yes, we have 5 day domestic trips. I just did one for 31.5 hours. I commute.....for now....and it's FANTASTIC to get the flying done in as few commutes as possible. In June I have 3 fully commutable trips and 17 days off. Wow, our work rules suck! If I did 3 day trips like DL I'd spend as much time commuting as flying. That sucks. Domestic 3 days for a commuter? That sucks. You guys must really enjoy driving to the airport in ATL many times per month.

That sucks. 31 hours in 5 days? Is that legal? Doesn't sound like it. I need to call the FAA....

I hear DAL doesn't have BSTG, ie. trip guarantee like NWA.

That sucks. Trip guarantee? Of course we do. That is stupid on your part.

I hear that if you end up over 80 hours of credit(flying/training/vacation/standby pay/reporting pay) at DAL you still get paid straight 1x pay unless you jumped through hoops with 1 days notice on a greenslip.

That sucks. A lot of people don't want to fly that much. You have to because your pay rates are weak. Our reserves can do "rolling thunder" which can give them 150 or more hours of pay with only 9-10 days of flying by flying on their days off and getting other days off on the days they were scheduled to be on reserve. That is nice. I know an FO that got 180 hours of pay for 12 days work last Summer.(in one month)

I hear your guarantees are 65 line/70 reserve.

That sucks. A 3rd year pilot can hold 777 FO. At 65 hours for a line or 70 hours for reserve, he still makes more than a 10 year guy on most of your equipment, and he does less. That is good.

I hear you have contract instructors in the sim and that you guys still use lots of memory items and such.

That sucks. You will too. It's coming. The guys who give checkrides are line pilots, though.

I hear DAL has no ASAP program (NWA's "NASAP")with the feds and no FOQA program.

That sucks. Again, you will lose the NASAP. We did, and the Nasa forms are again "in."

I hear your sick leave is a joke. We have a majority of pilots whose accruals would allow them to be off for a year or longer with full pay. You guys get, what 240 hours every 3 years? Going to 300? That sucks. But you get to buy insurance from the company to pay you more if you use up your 250 hours?

That sucks. That all changes with LOA19. Maybe again it will change with our new joint contract.

I hear that for every new mainline aircraft DAL gets, your feeders can get 3 76-seaters.

That sucks. That is correct, although we are losing 50 seaters at a faster rate. Hey, you were the ones who started the "76 seat" rage...

You do get about 10% more pay per hour than we do on comparable equipment, except your 767, which pays 10% more than our 757 even though it's a lot bigger. Your pay is terrible. How much does a 12 year DC9 FO make? Less than a year 2 or 3 757/767 FO, and we have a lot more high paying jobs. Really, you have to fly well over 80 hours a month to try to make up.

I hear that your MEC meetings consist mainly of calling each other by their military call sign.

That's Stupid. That is stupid, and probably wrong. You guys yell at each other because you all hate and don't trust each other at your meetings probably. You need 10 observers to go to the bathroom and take a sh%$.

Oh yeah, your senior guys a few years ago ran off with your A-plan and left you with nothing...unless it's time, again, for you guys to say that your claim sale made everyone whole for that. Is that in this months talking points? I'm wasn't sure.

That sucks.
I made an extra $280,000 thanks to BK. I made an additional $70,000 for my pension dump. How did you do for your equity? I heard you threatened a strike and the amount went down in value. Talk about stoopid.

Wow, in reality, a lot of what you said SUCKS. And, it is too bad we are taking you over. Thanks for Asia.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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Wow, in reality, a lot of what you said SUCKS. And, it is too bad we are taking you over. Thanks for Asia.

:puke: Self~Absorbed--General Lee


Whats the matter? You got called out and thats the best you can come up with!! I asked you a question and you haven't answered it either, wonder why? You are a prime example why SOME NWA pilots are skeptical of DAL mgmt and DALALPA. Congrats on your achievement and thanks for your helpful contributions to the discussions :rolleyes:
 
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Whats the matter? You got called out and thats the best you can come up with!! I asked you a question and you haven't answered it either, wonder why? You are a prime example why SOME NWA pilots are skeptical of DAL mgmt and DALALPA. Congrats on your achievement and thanks for your helpful contributions to the discussions :rolleyes:

Seriously, click on User CP, scroll down to Buddy/Ignore List and add GL, Puffdrivr, etc. The discussions remarkably improve.

They are low seniority FO who know they are going down in seniority once Moak comes back to reality and agrees to a fair SLI. Basically, when Anderson tells him to jump, he will.
 
Whats the matter? You got called out and thats the best you can come up with!! I asked you a question and you haven't answered it either, wonder why? You are a prime example why SOME NWA pilots are skeptical of DAL mgmt and DALALPA. Congrats on your achievement and thanks for your helpful contributions to the discussions :rolleyes:


Read above, I came up with a lot better.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Seriously, click on User CP, scroll down to Buddy/Ignore List and add GL, Puffdrivr, etc. The discussions remarkably improve.

They are low seniority FO who know they are going down in seniority once Moak comes back to reality and agrees to a fair SLI. Basically, when Anderson tells him to jump, he will.

That really is a classic. And, I will be senior to nwaredtail, no doubt.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Read above, I came up with a lot better.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Its cute how you spin all your "information" :cool: For instance you compare your 2-3 year FOs on a heavy to a 12 year FO on the DC9 :confused: I dont think we even have a single pilot thats at 12 year FO rates on the DC9 and if there is its by their own choice. In true fashion you spun your info to try and make your point. What a *SHOCK*:eek: :rolleyes:
 
Wow, in reality, a lot of what you said SUCKS. And, it is too bad we are taking you over. Thanks for Asia.

Bye Bye--General Lee


I guess my previous post was too difficult for your response? (Probably too specific).

BTW- great attitude. Life is cyclical. Your egotistic, pompous, overbearing attitude might be fine for you now-- but the fact of the matter is things change. (I doubt whether you can grasp this concept).

Seceretly cutting your own deal with RA without ALL union pilots, & throwing the NWA guys under the bus inflates your already gigantic ego. That's fine. But just remember-- karma works in both directions. Maybe not immediately, but someday......
 
Its cute how you spin all your "information" :cool: For instance you compare your 2-3 year FOs on a heavy to a 12 year FO on the DC9 :confused: I dont think we even have a single pilot thats at 12 year FO rates on the DC9 and if there is its by their own choice. In true fashion you spun your info to try and make your point. What a *SHOCK*:eek: :rolleyes:


Look at airlinepilotcentral.com. yourself. An 8th year 757 FO at NWA makes less than a 3rd year DL 757/767 FO. That says it all. And we have newhires on the 757/767, and if they are INTL ER pilots add an additional $3 an hour. It all adds up, no spin needed. I would like to see how you can spin your way out of this. And, DTW319 loves to bring up that you get time and a half over 80 hours. Great. Work more to make up the difference.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
I guess my previous post was too difficult for your response? (Probably too specific).

BTW- great attitude. Life is cyclical. Your egotistic, pompous, overbearing attitude might be fine for you now-- but the fact of the matter is things change. (I doubt whether you can grasp this concept).

Seceretly cutting your own deal with RA without ALL union pilots, & throwing the NWA guys under the bus inflates your already gigantic ego. That's fine. But just remember-- karma works in both directions. Maybe not immediately, but someday......

Kharma? I don't wish any harm on anyone. I just give my opinion on what I think will happen. This is an opinion board, you know. I think you really need some coffee or something to calm yourself down.

As far as cutting a deal with RA, that will give YOU AND ME more money in the long run, thanks to us raising the FLOOR of pay. We will start at a higher floor and hopefully go UP. Your W2 will thank us.
Seniority integration will ALWAYS be tense, and nobody will be happy except the #1 Captain. But, your pay will be higher, and you guys stand to make a lot larger increase than we do, thanks to you being soooo low. And, you still have a pension, which we do not.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Look at airlinepilotcentral.com. yourself. An 8th year 757 FO at NWA makes less than a 3rd year DL 757/767 FO. That says it all. And we have newhires on the 757/767, and if they are INTL ER pilots add an additional $3 an hour. It all adds up, no spin needed. I would like to see how you can spin your way out of this. And, DTW319 loves to bring up that you get time and a half over 80 hours. Great. Work more to make up the difference.


Bye Bye--General Lee


I dont have to spin anything because i actually want to be part of the change not the problem. You are part of the problem!! I personally hope we can make this work and just hate to see the majority of your posts are nothing more than flames directed at bashing us here at NWA. We are all about to be DAL pilots and you continue to want to pin one group against one another. Maybe thats your lamea$$ sense of humor, regardless you dont post anything that benefits anything. Whats the point of you trying to divide our pilot groups? I have seen you post some productive posts, rare, but a couple thats the only reason why i havent put you on the ignore list yet like others have. Maybe thats what you want, i dont know? The elementary school mentality of a large majority of your posts are why most people ignore you or dont give you any credit.

The good thing is i think we have some very smart people working on both of our behalf's and both sides know we need to ALL be on the same team in order to really be a successful company in the long run.

~~Rant over~~
 
I dont have to spin anything because i actually want to be part of the change not the problem. You are part of the problem!! I personally hope we can make this work and just hate to see the majority of your posts are nothing more than flames directed at bashing us here at NWA. We are all about to be DAL pilots and you continue to want to pin one group against one another. Maybe thats your lamea$$ sense of humor, regardless you dont post anything that benefits anything. Whats the point of you trying to divide our pilot groups? I have seen you post some productive posts, rare, but a couple thats the only reason why i havent put you on the ignore list yet like others have. Maybe thats what you want, i dont know? The elementary school mentality of a large majority of your posts are why most people ignore you or dont give you any credit.

The good thing is i think we have some very smart people working on both of our behalf's and both sides know we need to ALL be on the same team in order to really be a successful company in the long run.

~~Rant over~~

Let's hope so. And, before you know it, you will be GLAD you are on my team. You will be saying to your 767 Captain someday, "Man, that General Lee, he is one funny guy, and thank gawd he is our new MEC Chair. I hope he becomes ALPA NATIONAL PRESIDENT. And then, if it is possible, President of North America!"


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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