NW scabs

[psycho]

Lear 70'

Takes 20 years as a cleaner to make 40 k.

By the way, many F/O's who have flown with you consider you a "TOOL"

 

[Freight Dog]

20 years or 20 minutes experience in cleaning an airplane - a cleaner is a cleaner is a cleaner. Sorry... a minimum wage job.

Unfortunately, these guys are lumped in with the mechs who, unlike the cleaners, are truly worth every dime they make and then some...

 

[psycho]

20 years or 20 minutes experience in cleaning an airplane - a cleaner is a cleaner is a cleaner. Sorry... a minimum wage job.

At least we agree on something. I feel the same way about F/O's like you.

 

[English]

freight dog isn't an FO...he's an escapee.

 

[skykid]

With UAL in Ch-11 for 3 years, not paying much if anything for leases, flooding the industry with below cost tickets, NWA revenues at 1999 levels when fuel was .38 cents and now is $1.54 ( 2.09 BILLION annual INCREASE ) it was crunch time. Pension reform close, things will get going again next year.

Diesel - 9, bullsh$t. Time after time United has either started or jumped right in on a fare increase, and guess who either doesn't go in at all, or increases fares only to pull back at the last minute - INCLUDING LAST WEEKEND!!! Not paying for leases - read the monthly SEC filings. Do a little research before posting that tired nonsense.

 

[Freight Dog]

freight dog isn't an FO...he's an escapee.

 

[Freight Dog]

20 years or 20 minutes experience in cleaning an airplane - a cleaner is a cleaner is a cleaner. Sorry... a minimum wage job.

At least we agree on something. I feel the same way about F/O's like you.

Remember that the next time you go to the sim and your FO hangs you out to dry because you're an a$$hole.

 

[Lear70]

Remember that the next time you go to the sim and your FO hangs you out to dry because you're an a$$hole.

Couldn't have said it better myself...

 

[enigma]

Cleaners making around 40k a year?!?!? Holy cow!

I'm all for the mechs and keeping their pay at current levels and even higher, but how do you justify cleaners making 40k??? Isn't that normally a non-skilled labor minimum wage job for high school and college students??

---
Northwest Airlines Brings in Replacement Workers
Two Northwest Jets Suffer Mishaps in Detroit
By JOSHUA FREED, AP

MINNEAPOLIS (Aug. 20) - Northwest Airlines jets roared into the sky over the heads of striking mechanics Saturday as the nation's fourth-largest carrier turned over its maintenance to replacement workers on Day 1 of the industry's first major walkout in seven years..............................


After talks broke off just before midnight Friday, union negotiator Jim Young said the mechanics would rather see the airline go into bankruptcy than agree to Northwest's terms. The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association represents 4,427 mechanics, cleaners and custodians, about 11 percent of Northwest's 40,000 employees.

The mechanics average about $70,000 a year in pay, and the cleaners and custodians can make around $40,000.

......................

Does anyone know what percentage of the 50% (approx) job cuts that NWA was demanding would have been cleaners and custodians?

Is it possible that the A&Ps represented by the AMFA fell on their sword to protect a bunch of overpaid maids? Man I hope not

Or, is it possible that those "cleaners" are in fact mechanics who happen to work in NWA's cleaning shop. NWA has always had some of the cleanest airplanes in the business. If given the choice, I'll always (up til now of course) buy a ticket on NWA just because I like clean aircraft.

I'm not proud of it, but I happen to have experience flying around dirty, nasty, airplanes. Maybe the NWA execs need to take a trip from DTW to FLL on one of their LCC competitors dirty old MD80's; that might give them some perspective.

enigma

 

[FlyingFisherman]

Though it's not a major I did have an interview with Mesaba in Minneapolis this past week. The CP doing the interviewing (and this was verified by several others there including average-joe line pilots) went over the situation with us. As he said it, the cleaners are the only ones being lopped off. NWA wants to outsource the job cheaper than they can do it in house. That represents the 50-some percent of the union as the cleaners/wrench turners are in the same union. As I understood it, they don't want to fire any wrench turners, but do want them to take roughly a 1/4 pay cut.

Mesaba mechanics aren't walking, never intended to. F/A's and Pilots never intended to as I understand either.

That's all I know and it isn't much...but hopefully it will help.

 

[dbrownie]

Or, is it possible that those "cleaners" are in fact mechanics who happen to work in NWA's cleaning shop.

The "cleaners" were the folks who cleaned the cabins after the pax left.

Dave B

 

[vtwo]

Funny but sad

Quote:
Originally Posted by klhoard
.
BTW - what would you call a replacement worker that takes a scabs job??

.
Dues paying ALPA membersQuote:
Originally Posted by klhoard
.
BTW - what would you call a replacement worker that takes a scabs job??

.
Dues paying ALPA members

My wife who works in medicine says a "scab" which has been replaced by another "scab" is a scar.................. and a scar is a is a permanent reminder of a past (Injury to the industry). scabs can die in hell

 

[ghostrider64]

I heard a rumor that NWA Management has recruited pilot trainees in mexico who are being trained in the event there unfavorable negotiations in the future with NWA pilots...These future pilots are training at an undisclosed location and will be fully qualified within 2 years...These future pilots have agreed to work for 25% of the current pilot force wages and have a 15 year training contract...

 

[SWA tech]

20 years or 20 minutes experience in cleaning an airplane - a cleaner is a cleaner is a cleaner. Sorry... a minimum wage job.

Unfortunately, these guys are lumped in with the mechs who, unlike the cleaners, are truly worth every dime they make and then some...
Thank you

 

[Schwanker]

Cleaners making around 40k a year?!?!? Holy cow!

I'm all for the mechs and keeping their pay at current levels and even higher, but how do you justify cleaners making 40k??? Isn't that normally a non-skilled labor minimum wage job for high school and college students??

I understand it takes a pilots license at some airlines to clean the cabin. And they also make around 40K.

 

[Flashbang]

I heard a rumor that NWA Management has recruited pilot trainees in mexico who are being trained in the event there unfavorable negotiations in the future with NWA pilots.......

These future pilots have agreed to work for 25% of the current pilot force wages and have a 15 year training contract...

Yeah I heard that too, but I heard they are in the U.S. The two outfits are called Mesaba and Pinnacle if I'm not mistaken...

 

[RampTower]

Yeah I heard that too, but I heard they are in the U.S. The two outfits are called Mesaba and Pinnacle if I'm not mistaken...

However, there are two other outfits that can underbid Mesaba and Pinnacle. They are called BigSky and Gulfstream Academy.

 

[ultrarunner]

I'm saying it right here and now....

I predict that in the coming years, any labor unit that strikes will be on their own. Sympathy strikes are a thing of the past.

The previous 6 pages of rhetoric truly underscore the sad state of affairs of organized labor in the US.

You've lived by the union, and now you will die by the union...

just a matter of time...

 

[Deli Guy]

Ghostrider Quote
"I heard a rumor that NWA Management has recruited pilot trainees in mexico who are being trained in the event there unfavorable negotiations in the future with NWA pilots...These future pilots are training at an undisclosed location and will be fully qualified within 2 years...These future pilots have agreed to work for 25% of the current pilot force wages and have a 15 year training contract..."

Thats funny Ghost rider, I heard there was an outfit in Bolivia that is training 17 to 20 year olds to fly SD-360's, CE-560's, HS-125's and CE-750's (whatever they are) for just food and a room, they sign a lifetime agreement, and when they are not flying, they wash the managers cars.

 

[Deli Guy]

Hey, I have an idea, since the troubles in this industry are every one else's fault except (fill in your name, or company or particular bone to pick here:_________), will you all join me in a group hug general strike? If you have anything to do with aviation at all, you should strike tomorrow night at 00:01 eastern time. If not you are a scum sucking scab because you are not backing my outlandish stand against (fill in whatever you think should go in here_________)!!!
Lets not look at any facts, ...Lets just pontificate about how we "feel' or use "IMHO" to cover up what the new face of aviation has become.
There are lots of airplane companies--big and small--pumping out lots of easy to fly airplanes and practically giving them away to LCC's and Regionals and there are lots of barely qualified guys and gals out there ready to fly them.
Northwest ALPA ,backing a poorly concieved AMFA plan would not stop this. If AMFA demanded $1,000,000 dollars a year per cleaner and the letter "N" stricken from the english language as there starting point, there would still be guys on this board who would claim that ALPA was "giving away our profession" by not backing AMFA.
I can tell you that NWA ALPA has a much stronger reputation for taking minimum BS from management than any other major carrier. NWA pilot unions have more pilot strikes under it's belt to prove that. NWA ALPA will not strike to have the letter "N" stricken from the english language.
On that note, if you limp wristed whiners have a hair left on your nut sack, (or fill in the appropriate gender related saying here:_________) You will join me in my general strike to shut down all of aviation!! FOLLOW ME!!!!!

-----------------------------------------------------
Thank you for listening. I feel better now.