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NW scabs
- Thread starter nightrider
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Freight Dog
Well-known member
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- Nov 26, 2001
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skykid
On Point
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2002
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- 759
Diesel - 9, bullsh$t. Time after time United has either started or jumped right in on a fare increase, and guess who either doesn't go in at all, or increases fares only to pull back at the last minute - INCLUDING LAST WEEKEND!!! Not paying for leases - read the monthly SEC filings. Do a little research before posting that tired nonsense.
Freight Dog
Well-known member
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Freight Dog
Well-known member
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enigma
good ol boy
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- 2,279
Freight Dog said:
Does anyone know what percentage of the 50% (approx) job cuts that NWA was demanding would have been cleaners and custodians?
Is it possible that the A&Ps represented by the AMFA fell on their sword to protect a bunch of overpaid maids? Man I hope not
Or, is it possible that those "cleaners" are in fact mechanics who happen to work in NWA's cleaning shop. NWA has always had some of the cleanest airplanes in the business. If given the choice, I'll always (up til now of course) buy a ticket on NWA just because I like clean aircraft.
I'm not proud of it, but I happen to have experience flying around dirty, nasty, airplanes. Maybe the NWA execs need to take a trip from DTW to FLL on one of their LCC competitors dirty old MD80's; that might give them some perspective.
enigma
FlyingFisherman
Well-known member
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- Jul 8, 2005
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- 198
Though it's not a major I did have an interview with Mesaba in Minneapolis this past week. The CP doing the interviewing (and this was verified by several others there including average-joe line pilots) went over the situation with us. As he said it, the cleaners are the only ones being lopped off. NWA wants to outsource the job cheaper than they can do it in house. That represents the 50-some percent of the union as the cleaners/wrench turners are in the same union. As I understood it, they don't want to fire any wrench turners, but do want them to take roughly a 1/4 pay cut.
Mesaba mechanics aren't walking, never intended to. F/A's and Pilots never intended to as I understand either.
That's all I know and it isn't much...but hopefully it will help.
Mesaba mechanics aren't walking, never intended to. F/A's and Pilots never intended to as I understand either.
That's all I know and it isn't much...but hopefully it will help.
Funny but sad
Quote:
Originally Posted by klhoard
.
BTW - what would you call a replacement worker that takes a scabs job??
.
Dues paying ALPA membersQuote:
Originally Posted by klhoard
.
BTW - what would you call a replacement worker that takes a scabs job??
.
Dues paying ALPA members
My wife who works in medicine says a "scab" which has been replaced by another "scab" is a scar.................. and a scar is a is a permanent reminder of a past (Injury to the industry). scabs can die in hell
Quote:
Originally Posted by klhoard
.
BTW - what would you call a replacement worker that takes a scabs job??
.
Dues paying ALPA membersQuote:
Originally Posted by klhoard
.
BTW - what would you call a replacement worker that takes a scabs job??
.
Dues paying ALPA members
My wife who works in medicine says a "scab" which has been replaced by another "scab" is a scar.................. and a scar is a is a permanent reminder of a past (Injury to the industry). scabs can die in hell
ghostrider64
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2005
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- 462
I heard a rumor that NWA Management has recruited pilot trainees in mexico who are being trained in the event there unfavorable negotiations in the future with NWA pilots...These future pilots are training at an undisclosed location and will be fully qualified within 2 years...These future pilots have agreed to work for 25% of the current pilot force wages and have a 15 year training contract...
ultrarunner
Well-known member
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- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 4,322
I'm saying it right here and now....
I predict that in the coming years, any labor unit that strikes will be on their own. Sympathy strikes are a thing of the past.
The previous 6 pages of rhetoric truly underscore the sad state of affairs of organized labor in the US.
You've lived by the union, and now you will die by the union...
just a matter of time...
I predict that in the coming years, any labor unit that strikes will be on their own. Sympathy strikes are a thing of the past.
The previous 6 pages of rhetoric truly underscore the sad state of affairs of organized labor in the US.
You've lived by the union, and now you will die by the union...
just a matter of time...
Ghostrider Quote
"I heard a rumor that NWA Management has recruited pilot trainees in mexico who are being trained in the event there unfavorable negotiations in the future with NWA pilots...These future pilots are training at an undisclosed location and will be fully qualified within 2 years...These future pilots have agreed to work for 25% of the current pilot force wages and have a 15 year training contract..."
Thats funny Ghost rider, I heard there was an outfit in Bolivia that is training 17 to 20 year olds to fly SD-360's, CE-560's, HS-125's and CE-750's (whatever they are) for just food and a room, they sign a lifetime agreement, and when they are not flying, they wash the managers cars.
"I heard a rumor that NWA Management has recruited pilot trainees in mexico who are being trained in the event there unfavorable negotiations in the future with NWA pilots...These future pilots are training at an undisclosed location and will be fully qualified within 2 years...These future pilots have agreed to work for 25% of the current pilot force wages and have a 15 year training contract..."
Thats funny Ghost rider, I heard there was an outfit in Bolivia that is training 17 to 20 year olds to fly SD-360's, CE-560's, HS-125's and CE-750's (whatever they are) for just food and a room, they sign a lifetime agreement, and when they are not flying, they wash the managers cars.
Hey, I have an idea, since the troubles in this industry are every one else's fault except (fill in your name, or company or particular bone to pick here:_________), will you all join me in a group hug general strike? If you have anything to do with aviation at all, you should strike tomorrow night at 00:01 eastern time. If not you are a scum sucking scab because you are not backing my outlandish stand against (fill in whatever you think should go in here_________)!!!
Lets not look at any facts, ...Lets just pontificate about how we "feel' or use "IMHO" to cover up what the new face of aviation has become.
There are lots of airplane companies--big and small--pumping out lots of easy to fly airplanes and practically giving them away to LCC's and Regionals and there are lots of barely qualified guys and gals out there ready to fly them.
Northwest ALPA ,backing a poorly concieved AMFA plan would not stop this. If AMFA demanded $1,000,000 dollars a year per cleaner and the letter "N" stricken from the english language as there starting point, there would still be guys on this board who would claim that ALPA was "giving away our profession" by not backing AMFA.
I can tell you that NWA ALPA has a much stronger reputation for taking minimum BS from management than any other major carrier. NWA pilot unions have more pilot strikes under it's belt to prove that. NWA ALPA will not strike to have the letter "N" stricken from the english language.
On that note, if you limp wristed whiners have a hair left on your nut sack, (or fill in the appropriate gender related saying here:_________) You will join me in my general strike to shut down all of aviation!! FOLLOW ME!!!!!
-----------------------------------------------------
Thank you for listening. I feel better now.
Lets not look at any facts, ...Lets just pontificate about how we "feel' or use "IMHO" to cover up what the new face of aviation has become.
There are lots of airplane companies--big and small--pumping out lots of easy to fly airplanes and practically giving them away to LCC's and Regionals and there are lots of barely qualified guys and gals out there ready to fly them.
Northwest ALPA ,backing a poorly concieved AMFA plan would not stop this. If AMFA demanded $1,000,000 dollars a year per cleaner and the letter "N" stricken from the english language as there starting point, there would still be guys on this board who would claim that ALPA was "giving away our profession" by not backing AMFA.
I can tell you that NWA ALPA has a much stronger reputation for taking minimum BS from management than any other major carrier. NWA pilot unions have more pilot strikes under it's belt to prove that. NWA ALPA will not strike to have the letter "N" stricken from the english language.
On that note, if you limp wristed whiners have a hair left on your nut sack, (or fill in the appropriate gender related saying here:_________) You will join me in my general strike to shut down all of aviation!! FOLLOW ME!!!!!
-----------------------------------------------------
Thank you for listening. I feel better now.
Last edited:
TonyC
Frederick's Happy Face
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2002
- Posts
- 3,050
Make it the letter "U" and I'm onboard. Without "U", the United Parcel Service would become a Post Script.Deli Guy said:
Oh, and it would make more sense of those letters that management sends to employees that say, "We'll keep this company going with U or without U."
I'm starting a petition....
.
ghostrider64
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2005
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- 462
I don't have the details of who, what why or where, but my Union supports any and all unions that are on strike. And it's written into our contract that we can never be forced to "cross a picket line"...
I guess we all have our Opinions deli...Mine is you didn't learn much history with all that time in Trainers...
And btw I refused a ticket on NWA today and it felt wonderful to do my part to bring Unions back...As for cleaners not being worth this or that...I remember not too long ago the "Majors" calling SWA guys "loser dump truck drivers"...
I guess we all have our Opinions deli...Mine is you didn't learn much history with all that time in Trainers...
And btw I refused a ticket on NWA today and it felt wonderful to do my part to bring Unions back...As for cleaners not being worth this or that...I remember not too long ago the "Majors" calling SWA guys "loser dump truck drivers"...
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Hey Gost Rider,
1. I only have about 250 hrs in the t airplanes.
2 I actually have a degree in History.
3 NWA ALPA does not have to cross a picket line. It is not a simple cut and dry case. Look at the history of what went down here and you will see that the "removing the letter n from the english language" example is not far off. The mechanics themselves are great guys--I wish they had paid attention when their leadership laid out its half cocked plan. It was simply out of touch with reality. NWA ALPA really pulled in a bunch of professional help to sort out this mess 2 1/2 years ago and came up with an integrated plan. All the new AMFA leadership came up with was retoric and a demand that its mechanics make (this is for real) $100,000 a year (hence the "letter N" analogy) NWA ALPA tried to show them the "books" and the results of its actual research. AMFA was not interested. AMFA kept on with a crazy claim that NWA MGMT had 2 sets of "books"--even after they refused to look at the books! They had no research, no plan, no workable strategy--they just wanted to keep telling the rank and file member "we have management by the ball$" NWA ALPA tried a desperate attempt to get their findings to the rank and file AMFA member through public forums and were scolded and ridiculed by AMFA leadership. It was like watching a 4 year old trying to dock the Nimitz. You knew it was going to end in disaster and all you could do is try and scream into the control room to stop before it is too late. The 4 year old example is accurate because AMFA leadership acted like one.
Having endured that, would your union back their strike? I am not sure how close your company is to BK, but NWA is close. Would you applaud your union if it said to you, "Ghost Rider, our company can probably survive after the mechanics union crashes the Nimitz. We know that the mechanics union has been wrong headed and is completly in over its head. So we have decided to stand behind them even though it will cost all of us our jobs." That is the scenario that NWA ALPA faces.
As far as the ticket goes, you need to do what you need to do. I would hope you would reconsider now having more facts. Do not just listen to my manical jiberish, go check it out for yourself. Your ticket purchase on NWA might enable NWA ALPA to shove it back in managements face where the 4 year old Nimitz driver was lacking. It is not like NWA ALPA has a history of being timid. What history does your union have? NWA pilot unions have had kind of a "growling doberman" reputation with management since 1929. Can you not jump to conclusions until they have their "at bats"?
I always felt that the pilots at SWA were top notch. (and they sure can taxi fast!)
I think the cleaners are over paid
We do all have our own opinions and I respect yours
1. I only have about 250 hrs in the t airplanes.
2 I actually have a degree in History.
3 NWA ALPA does not have to cross a picket line. It is not a simple cut and dry case. Look at the history of what went down here and you will see that the "removing the letter n from the english language" example is not far off. The mechanics themselves are great guys--I wish they had paid attention when their leadership laid out its half cocked plan. It was simply out of touch with reality. NWA ALPA really pulled in a bunch of professional help to sort out this mess 2 1/2 years ago and came up with an integrated plan. All the new AMFA leadership came up with was retoric and a demand that its mechanics make (this is for real) $100,000 a year (hence the "letter N" analogy) NWA ALPA tried to show them the "books" and the results of its actual research. AMFA was not interested. AMFA kept on with a crazy claim that NWA MGMT had 2 sets of "books"--even after they refused to look at the books! They had no research, no plan, no workable strategy--they just wanted to keep telling the rank and file member "we have management by the ball$" NWA ALPA tried a desperate attempt to get their findings to the rank and file AMFA member through public forums and were scolded and ridiculed by AMFA leadership. It was like watching a 4 year old trying to dock the Nimitz. You knew it was going to end in disaster and all you could do is try and scream into the control room to stop before it is too late. The 4 year old example is accurate because AMFA leadership acted like one.
Having endured that, would your union back their strike? I am not sure how close your company is to BK, but NWA is close. Would you applaud your union if it said to you, "Ghost Rider, our company can probably survive after the mechanics union crashes the Nimitz. We know that the mechanics union has been wrong headed and is completly in over its head. So we have decided to stand behind them even though it will cost all of us our jobs." That is the scenario that NWA ALPA faces.
As far as the ticket goes, you need to do what you need to do. I would hope you would reconsider now having more facts. Do not just listen to my manical jiberish, go check it out for yourself. Your ticket purchase on NWA might enable NWA ALPA to shove it back in managements face where the 4 year old Nimitz driver was lacking. It is not like NWA ALPA has a history of being timid. What history does your union have? NWA pilot unions have had kind of a "growling doberman" reputation with management since 1929. Can you not jump to conclusions until they have their "at bats"?
I always felt that the pilots at SWA were top notch. (and they sure can taxi fast!)
I think the cleaners are over paid
We do all have our own opinions and I respect yours
Diesel-9
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 1, 2005
- Posts
- 527
Deli Guy. Well writen info. Nwa Alpa has been consistant more than any other Alpa carrier in fighting this fight and raising the bar. It will get to the point soon the only action left is a nationwide strike. Too bad it wasn't organized to fall on Labor Day. Then we could save what is left and give all the guys in the regionals and LCC's hope of getting to a job with the benifits we are barely holding onto. Also, AMFA dug their own hole as you said. Drug their feet and wouldn't participate when NWA Alpa tried to get all on board and get this done, see the books etc...A bunch of great guys with lousy representation at the top.
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enigma quote
"NWA, the rattlesnake airline. They will strike at anything!
I can't believe that some of you call NWA ALPA timid.
enigma"
Yea, thanks enigma,
I didn't want to throw that out there myself because it sounded too dramatic.
And for you Toney C,
Just remember there is no "I" in team. That would make it tieam or something.
"NWA, the rattlesnake airline. They will strike at anything!
I can't believe that some of you call NWA ALPA timid.
enigma"
Yea, thanks enigma,
I didn't want to throw that out there myself because it sounded too dramatic.
And for you Toney C,
Just remember there is no "I" in team. That would make it tieam or something.
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