NW scabs

[mynameisjim]

If someone knew they would tell you that they are.

 

[Redmeat]

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Does anyone know if the scabs are currently on Per Diem and staying in Hotels?
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http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/4854907/detail.html

 

[Tref]

Thanks! I completely agree...horrible situation. I appreciate the info...I'm not trying to hide I don't know much on the subject just wanted to contribute what little I'd heard from what I was hoping to be a good source. Good luck to all.

FF,

Sorry, I gave you some bad info. I thought the cleaners stayed IAM, but they went with the mechanics and custodians to AMFA. Most of the rest of the ground workers are IAM.

I am pretty sure about out sourcing the heavy maintenance though. With a bit of research I found that AMFA at NWA represents approx 3500 mechanics, 790 cleaners and 75 custodians.

They wanted to lay off 53% of the AMFA members. 53% of 4365 is 2314, so alot of mechanics must be included in the lay offs to get to that number (1449 mechanics by my calculations.)

Tref

 

[exdashdriver]

DashTrash...you wouldn't happen to fly for Piedmont would you?

 

[ghostrider64]

Deli,

I appreciate your insight...My Union BTW does have a history. A history that if you don't fall in line you may just fall in a river with cement boots on More than likely to never be seen again

Know one has struggled more than our Local 1108 in the midst of a 4+ year struggle and being dealt cards that include ownership that have past and present Presidents as customers. Our hands are completely bound with the exception of flying our contract to the word. And we have a clause that allows us to honor any picket line without fear of retribution. Wether or not the mechanics followed an ill advised plan doesn't make the managements decisions right. Or honorable.

I have another NWA flight scheduled on Thursday. Perhaps you can help change my mind by having a friendly, welcoming and helpful crew meet the pax as we board and during our flight. In the past 4 years I've been met with the most disgusting service and crews, not only with NWA but all others, horrible attitudes abound. At least until yesterday when unbelievably a FA remembered how much coffee I drank and came to me personally midflight to offer me the first cup of a new pot. That was enough to give me fond thoughts of United for the month.

So you think that me flying as a passenger helps or hurts the mechanics chances at being employed by NWA?

 

[Deli Guy]

Hey GR
I am sad to say--REALLY sad to say-- that I think the mechanics are toast at NWA. By flying as a pax on NWA you can give the pilots a chance for our turn at bat. As I described in my earlier post, AMFA leadership was way in over their head with this management team. Instead of listening to the folks who had actually seen this company through some tough times and had the experience to deal with this draconian EMT, they pushed on with an agenda that was...crazy! I can't think of another word to describe it. It actually pisses me off because its like your wing man letting you down. They gave all of our causes a grave wound with their unprofessional, unthinking, etc, etc...you get the picture. So now we (the pilots)are not only battleing management, but we are put in a position of having to explain this complex situation to our brethern at the other airlines. AMFA put us in the same situation NWA mgmt put them in. There was no compromise between AMFA and NW Alpa. They told us it was there way or the hiway. Alpa predicted this outcome over a year ago. When our leadership (ALPA) tried to put the rank and file mech's on notice what was going to happen (and still leave time for a combined plan to work) our leadership was raped by their leadership and told to butt out. I do not know what the answer is but it is not an easy one.
I will tell you that it would be a different story if what AMFA was trying to do made any sense. NWA would be shut down right now whatever the outcome. AMFA was out maneuvered and the worst part was that everybody saw it coming except AMFA.

As far as your flight is concerned, I can tell you that in the DC 9 community, we are flying 5 and 6 leg days in a 1965 airplane (no glass/automation) going vor to vor with a flip flop radio. We still have microphones like Sky King and with our tight turn times, it is asses and elbows just to push all the buttons on the ground. Due to that we usually do not have a chance to chat with the pax coming on board, so we try to be extra friendly to the folks coming off. (unless I make a bad landing, and then I keep the door shut--which is often)
Our matronly FA's are not always the picture of friendliness. Our gay guys are nice if you act gay, but its not worth it for a cup of joe. Having said that, I really think they are just as nice as any other carrier, (I do a lot of offline commuting) and I have been treated pretty bad by individuals at Delta, US Air, Continental and American.
I hope that helps, I know its complex, but that is the industry we live in.

Deli

 

[Redmeat]

Hey GR
I am sad to say--REALLY sad to say-- that I think the mechanics are toast at NWA.

Deli

ANY union at ANY airline will be "toast" if other unions on property (ALPA) are willing to work hand-in-hand with SCABS!

 

[pilotyip]

again Deli deals in reality of the rest of the world, because there are not alot of other options. No union can turn a pig's ear into a silk purse.

 

[Deli Guy]

Hey Redmeat,
I know, thats why this particular situation sucks so much. It is so easy to infer that NW pilots are cowards and hung their heads and reached out and held hands with the SCABS because we are afraid of management. The natural tendency is to put this on NW pilots. But at what point does AMFA have responsibility for this? I see you are a 9 Capt and I do not know if you are with NW or not, but if so, you know there are some great mechanics that are on the street right now. But a union is like government. You get the government you deserve. NW ALPA told AMFA that there plan was NOT going to get the backing of ALPA. They told them of this outcome. AMFA refused to budge. So here we are. Holding hands with SCABS. Was shutting down the airline and becoming the next EAL the answer? If you are with any airline other than NWA you are probably saying "yes" because then we would be out of your way selling insurance, but I say no. The mechanics f@#$ed up in a very high stakes game. They are big boys and need to take responsibility for their failure. I hope that the real lesson that comes out of all of this is that the unions at any airline have to come up with an integrated plan early and not get divided off early. I really hope that this was an eye opener for the PFAA and that they are huddling up with ALPA for a combined plan.
How are the unions doing at Continental? The company seems to be a darling of the industry. There seems to be a future there. There is a lot of SCAB handholding there. And at Jet Blue, Air Tran, Spirit etc. The fact is we are in a changed world and it sucks. The changed world is comprised of "successful" airlines having no retirement, no medical, no vacation, min work rules, low pay, and lots of SCAB handholding. That is why I am going to start a deli.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Deli Guy,

Yours is a lone voice of reason and fact with regard to AMFA and ALPA at NWA. I have been saying for months that if ALPA were to back the wrongheaded AMFA plan, the airline would be LIQUIDATED. The ALPA charter is to enhance and protect the careers of Northwest pilots. Not AMFA, not PFAA, not IAM. The NWA ALPA leadership wanted to combine the strengths of all the unions on the property (two years ago) and present a plan that returned profitability to the airline while protecting the salaries, benefits, and careers of NWA employees to the greatest extent possible. AMFA gave them the middle finger.

Steenland has won the day and I believe AMFA is done like dinner at NWA. Recriminations against ALPA, PFAA, IAM, and the other unions at NWA under the guise of some kumbaya union solidarity pipedream are intellectually dishonest at best and self-serving at worst. I believe you are correct in your assessment that the most ardent voices railing against the "scab handholders" come from those who would benefit most from the demise of Northwest.

As for Ghostrider, there are many lessons to be learned here for your MEC and the negotiating committee. AMFA underestimated management's resolve and thought themselves unreplaceable and consequently pursued a contract that was off-the-charts unrealistic given the economic conditions at hand. Yours is a unique labor dispute in this industry. Nonetheless, I think your membership (especially the 5%), should be careful about criticizing the attitudes of a battered and weary major airline work force.