NW scabs

[Redmeat]

Deli Guy,

Steenland has won the day and I believe AMFA is done like dinner at NWA.

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[Dizel8]

'There is a lot of SCAB handholding there. And at Jet Blue, Air Tran, Spirit etc."

Sorry Bub, but not many scabs at jetblue, if that what you are insinuating. Being non union versus crossing a picket line is two completely separate things.

As for NW ALPA, you clearly know more than those of us who are not there. It is a sad situation and having scabs working your airplanes must truly suck.

Having said that, I cannot help but wonder, if NWA management would have pursued the same course of action, had they not been so sure the pilots would cross. Sadly, they are not done yet, sounds like they are lining up the crosshairs on the F/As next, already training "replacement workers" on NWA metal.

 

[Deli Guy]

Hey Dizel 8,
The "Sorry Bub, but not many scabs at jetblue" is like saying "there are only small turds in our carton of ice cream" if they are there it taints everybody. I know an ex EAL scab who is on your property. I am not insinuating that you have or ever will cross a picket line. Which is my point. There are scabs at jet blue, and some on this board would say you are holding hands with scabs. You can't help it. It is not your fault. It is the way the corporation is set up and you are there to fly airplanes and make a living. Your corporation is another "success story". I think it is going to be the model of the industry. It is also modeled on the rest of the business world.
As far as NWA knowing whether we would support AMFA.....Again, we were in a position--created by AMFA....where there was no common ground. 2 years ago we were in a position to put together a mutually supportable plan. AMFA loudly and publicly pointed to how far apart ALPA and AMFA were as if we were the enemy! I am pretty sure NWA management could figure out how the landscape was contoured. AMFA conducted their campaign in a manner that was doomed to failure and it gravely wounded the PFAA and ALPA as well. This is my other point. This is way more complex than saying "NW pilots are crossing picket lines"
The PFAA is actually in a stronger position because they can ground the company. The leadership at PFAA is also out of their league. They are underfunded and out of touch. Their negotiating skills are void. They are dealing with Harvard Business/Law graduates across the table and they are being outmaneuvered as we speak. ALPA correctly recognized that the way to take these guys on was to get ALPA,AMFA,PFAA together 2 years ago and use our combined strength. Both PFAA and AMFA told us to piss off. Now everyone is out there on their own trying to do what they think is right for their union. I really hope ALPA and the PFAA get together at this point before it is too late. I know the guys at ALPA are professional enough to get over the "piss off" thing, but my read on the leadership at PFAA is that they would rather stamp their feet and make witty droll comments while knowingly rolling their eyes at the negotation table--in other words, pure drama for their members--than take needed action. I very much wish them luck but I think their future is dim.

P.S. Who is the hottie on your avitar? I do not like being locked up in the office late at night and coming across her picture. It forces me to go in and wake up my wife.

 

[jbucpt]

Hey Dizel 8,
The "Sorry Bub, but not many scabs at jetblue" is like saying "there are only small turds in our carton of ice cream" if they are there it taints everybody. I know an ex EAL scab who is on your property.....

isnt there a bunch of "scabs" at CONTINENTAL?? wait a minute, that cant be....their ALPA!

 

[anon]

Let's face it. ALPA doesn't care about scabs.

ASA has an EAL-scab as the chairman of the ALPA Security Committee. Whats worse is that the ASA MEC knew about it and still appointed him to that position.

All this talk about blacklists, etc. is just nonsense. ALPA cares only about dues. If you want to pay the dues, you're in. Your past history doesn't matter.

 

[Deli Guy]

Hey jbucpt,
I wrote this above:
"How are the unions doing at Continental? The company seems to be a darling of the industry. There seems to be a future there. There is a lot of SCAB handholding there. And at Jet Blue, Air Tran, Spirit etc. The fact is we are in a changed world and it sucks. The changed world is comprised of "successful" airlines having no retirement, no medical, no vacation, min work rules, low pay, and lots of SCAB handholding. That is why I am going to start a deli."

I still don't know the history of how ALPA allowed that to happen at Continental. But to me it shows that we are like the old wooden ship sailing crews who did not recognize that those steam powered boats were going to impact their standard of living.

 

[Deli Guy]

Hey Anon,
I think you nailed it. As much as I have defended NW ALPA, I think they are a necessary evil. I think the benifits out weigh the weaknesses but there are some glaring weaknesses!

 

[klhoard]

. . .<snip>. . . "there are only small turds in our carton of ice cream" . . .<snip>. .

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I'm no marketing major, but I don't think I'd put that on the front window of your deli!!
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[theo]

Airbus, Canadair, Embriar etc will keep pumping out airplanes and letting them go to startups for cheaper and cheaper and there is only so much airspace. There will be plenty of 20 year olds who would love to do your job cheaper, and your employer would love to hire them.

ALPA and all the mainline pilots can continue to ignore this fact or stop the 15 yr slide and integrate the small jets into the fleet.

I have seen countless comments saying that integrating small jets into mainline fleets will somehow stop the downward pressure on wages for the industry. I still don't see how that will work. Do you think that the wages will automatically raise after such an action? The pressure on wages comes from the low fares that exist in the industry. It seems to me that until the costs are less than the revenue, the downward pressure will continue. I don't think those that say raise fares are getting it. If you raise fares and your competitors (LCC's) don't you have even less revenue than you do today. Don't kid yourself into believing that the small jets are your problem, they are not. The competition (LCC's) are the problem and until the industry adjusts to that fact it appears turmoil and givebacks will have to continue. Sad but inevitable.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Same Ol' Blah blah.....

Glad to see guys like Deziel and Deli Guy steer this thread to fairness and reasonability. Enigma always helps... Oh yeah and leave Tony C. alone too...he speaks to the issue.

Now, for the rest of you whiny uneducated girls..... Get informed. Use the the matter between your head....constructively. There is nothing worse than a bunch of stupid dues paying ALPA members.. Why? Becuase they pay thier money and think their commitment to thier fellow pilots is done. You can't go to your religious house pay your tidings and expect to gain the benefits. You have to read the book, listen, particpate, etc.... A little servitude helps... alot....

Stupid pilots....our worst enemy. Just fly your trip and go home. That is where you are at your best....

And let's address this scab talk. Throwing around the scab term doesn't intimidate the educated. It just marks the ignorant. The smart men know what is and isn't a scab. Got Netflix? Watch Matawan. You'll see James Earl Jones' character make the statement "I've been called alot of things.. even nig***, but I've NEVER been called a scab."

So after you pay your dues, fly your trip, listen to the crewroom clowns you come home and post on flight info. Brilliant.

The issues are multi faceted. There are no silver bullets. If you spend 5-10 minutes educating yourself then you will come up with nickel and dime answers......

This AMFA strike is critical to all unions, becuase if managment wins it will only get them addicated to union busting. And when they come after us, they will at first divide and conguer the dummies and the educated.

Let's talk about ALPA. And remember DW is a NWA pilot. These guys have been working the issue day in and out for years. They have history, lawyers, advisors, politicians and a democratic process. Then along comes a "fly my trip and go homer" with all the answers.

If I were managment and I wanted to break ALPA I'd start with the ignorant flightinfo crowd. It's like Apollo 13, when Swigert called the spacecraft a piece of sh1t and Haise said this piece of sh1t is gonna take you home.

AMFA is on strike. Those guys are now outside looking in. They no longer have a place at the Table of Policy. ALPA does everything it can to keep a seat at the table where the decisions are made.

I have my issues with ALPA. As well as the US Gov't, church, company etc.... But before your slam ALPA and all its faults (cause it has them). Look in the mirror.

Get educated, get informed.

One of the dark truths at the heart of free-market capitalism: the unblinking willingness of those in power to crush--physically and spiritually--those who work.

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