NW/DL (and ultimately affecting ALL of us): The Flaw With "Career Expectations"

[Cobraair75drvr]

Just flew on a AA dc9 the other day. I also think that dal and allegiant may fly the dc9. Btw, who do you fly for??

Voice of Reason seems to be out of it. I don't fly for either of those 2 airlines, but it is easy to see that Delta is bringing more to the merger. Nicer planes, better bases, etc. Does anyone else fly DC9s other than Venezuela and some countries in Africa? I think I saw an ABX DC9 the other day on a cargo ramp somewhere.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Using size as your logic for the 9, what is your logic for the 400 being paid the same as the 777?? Btw the 747 so pays more than the coveted er. And before you go into the " 200s are going away speech" remember that they occupy slots at nrt, some being dual use(pax or cargo) and those won't be given away. That has also has to be looked at...I still think that neither sides proposal is going to be final. I think the best you can hope for is straight relative seniority and us feeling that is the absolute most we will give. And none of us know what the 3 wisemen will do if we leave it to them.







The DC9s are currently the smallest plane we have, paying the least. No getting around that. You also have some 747-200 FEs that are not over age 60 pilots, that were hired in the bottom 176 at NWA. We don't have any FE positions left at Delta. That also has to be looked at.


Bye Bye--General Lee[/quote]

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Voice of Reason seems to be out of it.

That's the understatement of the year.

I don't fly for either of those 2 airlines, but it is easy to see that Delta is bringing more to the merger. Nicer planes, better bases, etc.

Careful. The koolaid drinking nw pilots that fly those "super premium widebody" airplanes would disagree. Plus, northwest has those "fortress hubs" in MSP and DTW.

Does anyone else fly DC9s other than Venezuela and some countries in Africa?

Iraqi air still flies them.

I think I saw an ABX DC9 the other day on a cargo ramp somewhere.

I rest my case.

 

[poppi]

I get the impression Voice of Reason has a tendancy to bust oral check rides the way he writes.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

I get the impression Voice of Reason has a tendancy to bust oral check rides the way he writes.

Is that you General Lee?
You have a tendency to pop up with so many screen names it's hard to keep up the ignore list.
Literacy actually helps in a number of ways.
Try it sometime flight sim DL fanboy.
(BTW-- Heavy Set, aka General Lee, aka 737Pylyt, aka Tanker Clown: You other name "Scope Out RJ's" should not have an apostrophe).
Carry on.

 

[nwaredtail]

Ask the USAir East guys if they feel "equal"? The arbitrator didn't care in that case. He did what was right--except for the top 500, he kept everyone in the same percentage as before the merger. He looked at what each airline brought to the table, and then decided. IF we had the same number of planes and pilots, it would be easier to figure out. We don't.

Bye Bye--General Lee

And the arbitrators little "warning" to the DAL guys last week better open your eyes bi-polar boy. The NWA proposal harms NO DAL pilot, while the DAL proposal takes away years of seniority from almost every NWA pilot. Yup, I am SURE the arbitrators will overlook this. I agree, they will look at NWA's superior financial numbers, less debt, fortress hubs, more cash vs. size and make a fair decision.

Seriously, one minute you are Mr. "let's have beers", the next, "we are saving NWA and their old planes" What a ****************************** bag.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

The NWA proposal significantly harms many DAL pilots.... don't be so blind to your own cause. Many mid-upper level DAL pilots would be taking a huge hit in bidding power with the NWA proposal.

However, I agree that the 744 should be paid more than the 777. I also believe that all the 744 slots should have been in front of ours.

For this and other reasons..we're going to see something in between the two proposals.

 

[michael707767]

The NWA proposal harms NO DAL pilot, while the DAL proposal takes away years of seniority from almost every NWA pilot.

a statement like means you are confusing seniority with longevity. The number one pilot at JetBlue, has only been there 8 or 9 years, but he is still very senior. The bottom guy at USAir at one point had been there 16-17 years, yet he was still very junior. How long you have been there means nothing in terms of seniority.

The NWA proposal takes Delta pilots and moves them down the list between 9 and 12%,whilte at the same time moving NWA pilots up 10-15% on the list. The Delta proposal leaves everyone within a percent or two of their current position.

Further, the very topic of this thread is a flaw with career expectation. That means you can't count on moving up with retirements, or deliveries or anything like that. All that counts is what you are holding today.

 

[nwaredtail]

.

The NWA proposal takes Delta pilots and moves them down the list between 9 and 12%. The Delta proposal leaves everyone within a percent of their current position.

First of all, you failed math bigtime. The Delta proposal takes relative seniority (i'll accept that), and then gives all the DAL guys 1500 retirements that they would NOT have had over the next 10 years. Yeah, THATS FAIR.

In 10 years, the top 50% of the list would be almost 90% DAL pilots. I guess that just slipped by your guys as they were defining "fairness".

 

[michael707767]

First of all, you failed math bigtime. The Delta proposal takes relative seniority (i'll accept that), and then gives all the DAL guys 1500 retirements that they would NOT have had over the next 10 years. Yeah, THATS FAIR.

In 10 years, the top 50% of the list would be almost 90% DAL pilots. I guess that just slipped by your guys as they were defining "fairness".

Do you know for a fact that the retirements at NWA won't be offset by the airline shrinking? No you don't. Even the arbitrators shot down the idea of career expectations.

However, if you want to argue you should get better than relative because you have more retirements, that's a valid argument. But DOH means nothing.