Ntsb Notes First Officer's Failure....in 2003 Fedex Crash

[PurpleTail]

Could have happened to any number of people landing jets that day in Memphis, particularly old ones with many, many cycles on the landing gear.


FJ

Nope, it happened to just one!

If you read the report the company sent us on the basic findings (crash analysis) the LEFT main touched down something like 25 ft RIGHT of centerline. What is more amazing is that you NEVER hear the check airman on the CVR saying "more rudder" or "get on centerline". I know this was a training flight and that this particular crewmember was not liked by many but the check airmen, IMHO, should have stepped in.

I might bang it on but I'm on centerline with the proper wing down...at least that gives me the greatest chance of survival

 

[Hung Start]

Would be nice if this could be a non gender issue. I would also like to see somebody come to her defense and say "good pilot, bad day". Anyone??

If the pilot stinks, they shouldn't be there. But, way too much political correctness these days, and somebody is going to get killed. Again.

But I did like the comment about the bags, at least the riders had their acts together!!

 

[Phaedrus]

Hung start:
Someone did come to her defense on wreg (MEM ch 3):

In 1994, an unidentified previous employer indicated that her poor proficiency ratings at that company were the result of her "generally poor airmanship."

This is a total non-gender issue until you realize that it a possibility (only a possiblity) that some are given chances that others are not. Until there is proof of that FedEx and she should be given the benefit of the doubt.

 

[SUNDOWN]

SUNDOWN--You've been in this business a long time if you have 8,000 hours. How can you not be aware of UAL's deplorable hiring practices in the '90's? (And the equally deplorable record of UAL management forcing people through training to the line who should have still been instructing on 152's...)TC[/QUOTE]

My point is that most of the pilots with whom I've flown with and come across during this period are qualified professionals and solid pilots.

 

[Ace McCoy]

Hung start:
In 1994, an unidentified previous employer indicated that her poor proficiency ratings at that company were the result of her "generally poor airmanship."

That employer was Mesaba and I have talked to people that flew with her and said she was terrible.

I think that is the point of most people's frustration. If she got fired/resigned from a regional what the heck is she doing at Fed Ex? There is a pattern of bad airmanship yet she gets hired at a major. It points to one thing...her gender.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

did she get canned or did she stay as a result of "diversification"?

 

[Flyer1015]

For the record, I posted her name, and that info is all over the news media anyway.

Also, I put a page I found about her through google.com. All I quoted was a funny statement that her boyfriend A320 pilot made.

That's it. I have not bashed her flying skills. I personally don't know enough about her to make those kind of comments. Now if there are any (ex)-Mesaba or Fedex pilots here who flew with her, and have known her for a while, then feel free to comment.

 

[LAZYB]

http://www.generalaviationnews.com/editorial/column.lasso?-token.author=Robyn%20Sclair

http://www.generalaviationnews.com/contact.html

 

[Phaedrus]

Google is amazing. I never even knew the WISHList existed until this thread. The things you don't know...

 

[Yank McCobb]

I know of several female pilots who are among the top pilots I have ever seen in 30+ years as an airline pilot, instructor, check airman and examiner.

I also know of several male pilots that couldn't pass a training program where they were given every conceivable "remediation" possible.

All this has absolutely NOTHING to do with anything. Those of you playing the "gender" card here are only showing your own narrow-minded, simplistic view of your OWN shortcomings.

Sad. Very sad.

Come to think of it, it was a MALE whose repeated failures, poor performance and subsequent FATAL ACCIDENT was the driving force behind the PRIA. Of course, his gender had nothing to do with it. But had he been something other than a white male (of which I am) then all the simpletons would have come out from under their rocks screaming about how it is the fault of the new PC world.

Ignorance comes in many forms, however most of them are as predictable as the sunrise.

 

[Huck]

1. There was a policy that lowered the bar for certain people in the mid-90's at FDX. It was done away with a long time ago. Anybody hired in the last ~7 years has at least 1000 PIC turbine. The girls I've met here have considerably more than that.


2. What pi$$es me off is the findings about the slide and the bags. The story around the schoolhouse is this: the j/s deployed the slide on the upwind (non-inferno) side. The wind was so bad, and the roll so pronounced towards the gear collapse, that the slide tucked under the fuselage. The j/s didn't see the picture he expected, so he kept pulling handles, thus releasing the girt bar. But it MADE NO DIFFERENCE, the slide was unuseable.

And as for the bags - 7 people standing in line to slide ~30 feet or so down a rope (again on the high, upwind side). This took so much time, the guys standing in line back in the courier compartment chucked some luggage out the previously opened 1L door. BIG F#$$#ING DEAL. How dare they criticize! Does anyone HONESTLY THINK those guys got out of a burning jet any slower than they absolutely had to?

 

[Chronic Jetlag]

Hey Yank McCobb:

Well said! Since we're on the subject of naming names. I think the person you're referring to regarding PRIA was Ron Hillis from Comair. He made the cover of USA today back around 1996. I think he got fired from several commuters before Comair picked him up. Feel free to correct me if I have my facts wrong; I'm going by memory.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

http://www.generalaviationnews.com/contact.html

You know, I clicked on the following article, and sad to say it wasn't what I was hoping it was about.

John Carroll’s perfect pair 8/6/2003
More...

 

[HAZ-MAT]

Haven't seen this one posted yet...

December 18, 2003

Looking at the date, me thinks that some of those bags being thrown out might have had some nice christmas presents in those bags. Thats a wild guess though, I mean thats just my angle, but i'm christian, so who knows
cheers!

 

[HAZ-MAT]

Haven't seen this one posted yet...

......

 

[100LL... Again!]

When you suck as a pilot, you suck. Regardless of gender.

The issue is not whether women are suited to fly airplanes - we all know they are.

The issue is that you cannot easily discipline a femle due to PC-think.

She should hang her head for her crappy airmanship, which seems to be far from an isolated incident. No male would have ever been given this many chances.

 

[Inconceivable]

Disclaimer: my wife is a pilot also and flies like a freaking machine. (Though I'll never admit this in person) She is a far better sick-and-rudder pilot than I am--just unbelievably instinctive.

At a former employer, the airline formerly known as Express Airlines I, there was a female SF3 FO--she'd been in the right seat a little over two years before going to upgrade (an admittedly quick-and-dirty process). Busted her type ride. Retrained, rechecked--another bust. Here is where you and I would be sitting in the right seat for another year if not terminated. She was given the first and only (that I know of since 1995) THIRD type ride. Ths time the union, the feds watched, with the CP while another check airman rode right seat--that's 6 people in the sim! Another pink (I would have too with that many people breathing down my neck). Sent back for right seat retraining, something went wrong there too and the feds pulled her instrument rating for a 709.

The company then decided to pick up the cost of her retraining IN THE SF3 SIM!!!! to prepare her for her 709 ride. A few months later (when Johnny McFed could get around to doing it) she passed the 709, then passed her 441 for the right seat and nine months later got her type (contractual limitations of waiting a year). After the seat-lock transitioned to the RJ and passed on the first go. From everyone I've heard, a wonderful person and a good pilot.

However, during this time new-hires were being cut loose for needing an extra sim session--often these were unpaid, PFT-ing newhires. The VP FltOps thought that extra sim sessions cost too much (but explain the money lost in throwing away someone who only needs a few hours more until the checkride--especially coming straight out of a PA44 heavy?)

I have seen both sides of it with my wife--the easy hiring is often countered by a check airman determined to make you pay/earn your dues/see you never make it to a major/put you in your place/etc. I flew with a retired field grade (female) AF officer who had "troubles" as an FO and in CA training--how do you get command wings when you can't plan your own descent profile from FL290 150 miles out in an RJ?

But if you think you get pi$$ed about "bad women pilots" being promoted beyond their ability, bring it up with a chick who actually CAN fly--and has to prove herself to the rest of her her whole career because of them.

 

[Dodge]

I always told my folks that it would be just a matter of time before an airline crashed a plane and the investigation led to a pilot with 10 times less experience than required for other pilots and/or a poor training record.

I always bet that it would be United, not Fed Ex.

 

[Hung Start]

Inconcievable:

Very well put. My wife and daughter are both pilots. Both have no ambition to go to any commercial operations, but both are very insulted by the "get the job because your a gal"
Get the job because you deserve it.

 

[sleepy]

I am glad to see a lot has changed in this buisness. I remember when pilots use to have certain biases against women. This thread makes me sick. I have flown with just as many weak dudes as chicks. Karma is a B1tch guys. You know what they say about judging other pilots. If she was weak....as it apears, I am sure she will or has been dealt with. But does this really need to turn into a "girls aren't qualified to fly" thread. I mean when is the last time you heard of pilot in the Mil or Civ doing something stupid in his plane ( almost weekly). We all have friends who are chicks that fly, and I am sure most of us know some pretty fre@k1ng good women pilots so lets lay off that issue, it's old. And if you are gonna post a name put yours up as the author..that seems fair.

Let me be clear, I have no opposition to a qualified person getting a major airline job. I only have a problem with obvious quota hires (like this woman). I have no fear of "bad karma", as I have always done things the right way in this business. Maybe the bad karma ended up with the right person in this case (the quota).