Ntsb Notes First Officer's Failure....in 2003 Fedex Crash

[Birdstrike]

...If she was weak....as it apears, I am sure she will or has been dealt with...

If only that were true.

No, if she was male and weak, then she would have been dealt with. If she's female in today's PC world, she will be given as many chances as possible for remedial retraining until she finally gets it right.

She will simply not be permitted to fail. It's discriminatory, it's wrong, everyone knows its wrong, but it's just the way it is in your industry and in mine.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

MEN NURSE TOO...

Nipples


GAYLORD FOCKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bandit317]

So I guess I need to fail some PC's before FedEx will hire me. And all this time I thought being proficient was the way to the majors....Stupid..Stupid..Stupid!

 

[Falconjet]

I hate to even jump in here, but I feel that I must say a few things.

The first is, it sounds like there are a lot of guys (generic) who have never made a bad landing in their life. I'm hoping that you continue to shine like that throughout the rest of your career.

Secondly: The F/O in this incident was afforded the remedial training as specified in the CBA between FedEx and the pilots. She didn't receive any extra training that any other guy wouldn't have also received, at least at FedEx.

Third: A guy was in charge of the aircraft and evaluating the F/O. Do you guys all want to berate him as well? You could argue that he should have taken the jet for the landing based on the conditions that day. Yet he was evaluating the F/O and probably felt that this was a good test of her abilities.

Anybody on here ever instructed in the jet? Ever let a student go a little too far to let them learn from their mistake? Ever had a student make a poor landing even as you were just about to say or do something but just didn't quite make it in time and they really pranged it on? I know I have had all these things happen to me.

The point is to be careful throwing stones at your brethren.

That was an extremely rough and windy day in Memphis. The MD-10 is a very old airframe. It appears that the pilots landed in a crab and the landing gear failed. Could have happened to any number of people landing jets that day in Memphis, particularly old ones with many, many cycles on the landing gear.

Go easy and remember there but for the grace of God go YOU.

FJ

 

[Dodge]

That was an extremely rough and windy day in Memphis. The MD-10 is a very old airframe. It appears that the pilots landed in a crab and the landing gear failed. Could have happened to any number of people landing jets that day in Memphis, particularly old ones with many, many cycles on the landing gear.

FJ

I was flying that day in MEM. I believe of all the old airframes, dc-9s, 10s, saabs, this was the only one that crashed. Hmmm....

 

[AA717driver]

Falconjet--The age and condition of the aircraft were not a contributing factor to this accident.

Crashing an airplane does not fall into the category of "there are those who have and those who will". AND, I've found that the best women pilots out there aren't the ones featured in ANY news story about how great it is that they made it in a "man's world". They just go do their job and live their lives.

SUNDOWN--You've been in this business a long time if you have 8,000 hours. How can you not be aware of UAL's deplorable hiring practices in the '90's? (And the equally deplorable record of UAL management forcing people through training to the line who should have still been instructing on 152's...)TC

 

[Flyer1015]

I was the first one to post her name, so I'll defend myself:

I didn't search around much for it. Her name is in the news release just about EVERYWHERE with the exception of the NTSB preliminary report.

The second link about her was found by simply googling her name. Again, anyone could have found this info.

 

[VaB]

Good post Falcon Jet.

For everyone bashing her, you've got some cajones if you're in the same business as she is (probably soon to be "was").

Karma has a funny way of working itself out.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Fedex hired her after flying the Dash-8 ???

Kind of a big jump in size, speed and complexity, between a Dash-8 and an MD-11....Oh well all that counts is the number of hours and the right gender, to be hired I guess...

The only person I personally know who flies for FedEx is male and never flew anything bigger than a Beech 1900 prior to being hired there.

And FalconJet, how dare you post such drivel?

In the end it was the check airman's fault more than the FO's fault, IMHO. He shouldn't have let the situation get that out of hand.

 

[720degpersec]

I hate to even jump in here, but I feel that I must say a few things.

The first is, it sounds like there are a lot of guys (generic) who have never made a bad landing in their life. I'm hoping that you continue to shine like that throughout the rest of your career.

Falconjet,

There is a difference between a bad landing and a landing gear collapse. I landed the MD-11 hard , really HARD, right after I upgraded from a medium-sized jet. I was flying with a check airman and he let me mishandle the horse...like you said it is a learning process, and it can only be learnt by yourself....UP TO A CERTAIN AIRFRAME STRESS LIMIT !!!

FAR Part 25.487, which regulates Rebound landing conditions, will show you the landing gear has to sustain a load factor of 20.0 G.

 

[PurpleTail]

Could have happened to any number of people landing jets that day in Memphis, particularly old ones with many, many cycles on the landing gear.


FJ

Nope, it happened to just one!

If you read the report the company sent us on the basic findings (crash analysis) the LEFT main touched down something like 25 ft RIGHT of centerline. What is more amazing is that you NEVER hear the check airman on the CVR saying "more rudder" or "get on centerline". I know this was a training flight and that this particular crewmember was not liked by many but the check airmen, IMHO, should have stepped in.

I might bang it on but I'm on centerline with the proper wing down...at least that gives me the greatest chance of survival

 

[Hung Start]

Would be nice if this could be a non gender issue. I would also like to see somebody come to her defense and say "good pilot, bad day". Anyone??

If the pilot stinks, they shouldn't be there. But, way too much political correctness these days, and somebody is going to get killed. Again.

But I did like the comment about the bags, at least the riders had their acts together!!

 

[Phaedrus]

Hung start:
Someone did come to her defense on wreg (MEM ch 3):

In 1994, an unidentified previous employer indicated that her poor proficiency ratings at that company were the result of her "generally poor airmanship."

This is a total non-gender issue until you realize that it a possibility (only a possiblity) that some are given chances that others are not. Until there is proof of that FedEx and she should be given the benefit of the doubt.

 

[SUNDOWN]

SUNDOWN--You've been in this business a long time if you have 8,000 hours. How can you not be aware of UAL's deplorable hiring practices in the '90's? (And the equally deplorable record of UAL management forcing people through training to the line who should have still been instructing on 152's...)TC[/QUOTE]

My point is that most of the pilots with whom I've flown with and come across during this period are qualified professionals and solid pilots.

 

[Ace McCoy]

Hung start:
In 1994, an unidentified previous employer indicated that her poor proficiency ratings at that company were the result of her "generally poor airmanship."

That employer was Mesaba and I have talked to people that flew with her and said she was terrible.

I think that is the point of most people's frustration. If she got fired/resigned from a regional what the heck is she doing at Fed Ex? There is a pattern of bad airmanship yet she gets hired at a major. It points to one thing...her gender.