Ntsb Notes First Officer's Failure....in 2003 Fedex Crash

[MJG]

"MEN TYPE TOO...."

 

[SUNDOWN]

Agreed on the narrow minded sexism here, but I am also tired of the whole WOMEN FLY thing. The junk on that website is exactly what I'm talking about. Or how about the "Chick Flights" to Oshkosh every year. Yeah big fr*cking deal. It's a hobby/job, not your life. I could care less how your equipped as long as you know what your doing. Maybe male nurses need to start wearing big stickers that say MEN NURSE TOO...

Ok, now that is funny

 

[leardrivr]

Generaly I would have to agree with most of you regarding fed-ex and ups's policy when hirirng female pilots. Alot of these girls did not have the best backgroung to make the jump to a Md-11 or B757. I know of one girl who got on at U.P.S. with a couple of thousand hours right seat time in a gulfstream. That being said though we have two female pilots at our supplemental who are among the best pilots I have ever seen. One is a captain and is the smoothest pilot in the fleet. She runs a great ship.

 

[PSL]

SUNDOWN:

I agree that most of us know equally capable female aviators.

I am not voicing support for either side in this issue, but not knowing how long you have been in the business I would be careful about espousing your knowledge of history.

I remember a time during the late 80's to 1994 when a large number of S/MWM (Single/Married White Males) were sent a no thankyou letter from United because someone from the EEOC decided to threaten UAL if they did not hire more minorities. The pilot application was changed sometime in 1990 (if memory serves) to mandate a total time of 400 hours with a Commercial Pilot Certificate ... That was IT !!!

Go and speak with any UAL Check Airman who was on the B-73/75/76 during this time period and they should be able to tell you in detail some of the 'situations that were forced upon them by the EEOC'

I challenge you to find many 600 hour caucasian males in new hire class at UALat the time.

What gets experienced pilots wound up is the fact that these weak pilots have the arrogance to put up websites, become poster children for the 'you can do it too crowd long before you are ready' and then expect to be afforded extra training to achieve that ends even if it means resorting to legal action. It's been my experience that being a good pilot has nothing to do with your skin color, sex, creed, religion and everything to do with physical and mental ability that has been modified via training.

Putting up this FO's name was not over the top ... it was cited in numerous web based news articles.

Personally, I am curious what was done to the Check Airman

 

[Lequip]

I heard she was fired from FedEx but I'm not sure. Does anybody know?

 

[ATRCAPT]

I don't think it's a question of ability. I've flown with men who didn't have any business flying a kite much less an airplane. I've also flown with women who taught me quite a bit. The thing that ticks most guys off (myself included) is how easy and quickly women get the job. If FEDEX hired her right from a DHC8 they should hire me from my ATR. Right, and monkey's might fly out of my butt. Also, I shouldn't be overly concerned about passing checkrides since multiple failures don't seem to be a big deal. Affirmative action is crap, especially in a field like aviation. WE SHOULD ALL BE HELD TO THE SAME MINS/QUALIFICATIONS/STANDARDS regardless of sex/color, yadda, yadda, yadda. I'm all for equal rights, but let's remember equal rights are NOT special rights.

 

[SUNDOWN]

Putting up this FO's name was not over the top ... it was cited in numerous web based news articles.

Personally, I am curious what was done to the Check Airman[/QUOTE]


My only point was that a weak pilot is a weak pilot, man or woman. I was not at United in the 80's so I am unfamiliar with their hiring practices. If she was a result of some softened training program that that is unfair to everyone. I have to admit, I did not read her website so I do not know her career history.

 

[720degpersec]

You came out of fighters, what kind of time did you have?

My point exactly. I did not have thousands of hours, but I had been trained in a high performance jet.
When I said all you need is hours and being the right gender to be hired , I meant she had thousands of hours, but in slow moving, much lighter and smaller airplanes.
Believe me, I was glad I flew several years medium size jets, before jumping to a widebody.

 

[SUNDOWN]

My point exactly. I did not have thousands of hours, but I had been trained in a high performance jet.

When I said all you need is hours and being the right gender to be hired , I meant she had thousands of hours, but in slow moving, much lighter and smaller airplanes.
Believe me, I was glad I flew several years medium size jets, before jumping to a widebody.

720 this was not an attack, just an observation,I have flown with pilots who have gone from a DHC8 to a much larger A/C and they seemed too have done just fine.

 

[SRJ]

It is not like someone dug her name up and posted it in here. It is all over the Memphis news.

http://www.wreg.com/global/story.asp?s=1900497&ClientType=Printable

 

[Birdstrike]

...If she was weak....as it apears, I am sure she will or has been dealt with...

If only that were true.

No, if she was male and weak, then she would have been dealt with. If she's female in today's PC world, she will be given as many chances as possible for remedial retraining until she finally gets it right.

She will simply not be permitted to fail. It's discriminatory, it's wrong, everyone knows its wrong, but it's just the way it is in your industry and in mine.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

MEN NURSE TOO...

Nipples


GAYLORD FOCKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bandit317]

So I guess I need to fail some PC's before FedEx will hire me. And all this time I thought being proficient was the way to the majors....Stupid..Stupid..Stupid!

 

[Falconjet]

I hate to even jump in here, but I feel that I must say a few things.

The first is, it sounds like there are a lot of guys (generic) who have never made a bad landing in their life. I'm hoping that you continue to shine like that throughout the rest of your career.

Secondly: The F/O in this incident was afforded the remedial training as specified in the CBA between FedEx and the pilots. She didn't receive any extra training that any other guy wouldn't have also received, at least at FedEx.

Third: A guy was in charge of the aircraft and evaluating the F/O. Do you guys all want to berate him as well? You could argue that he should have taken the jet for the landing based on the conditions that day. Yet he was evaluating the F/O and probably felt that this was a good test of her abilities.

Anybody on here ever instructed in the jet? Ever let a student go a little too far to let them learn from their mistake? Ever had a student make a poor landing even as you were just about to say or do something but just didn't quite make it in time and they really pranged it on? I know I have had all these things happen to me.

The point is to be careful throwing stones at your brethren.

That was an extremely rough and windy day in Memphis. The MD-10 is a very old airframe. It appears that the pilots landed in a crab and the landing gear failed. Could have happened to any number of people landing jets that day in Memphis, particularly old ones with many, many cycles on the landing gear.

Go easy and remember there but for the grace of God go YOU.

FJ

 

[Dodge]

That was an extremely rough and windy day in Memphis. The MD-10 is a very old airframe. It appears that the pilots landed in a crab and the landing gear failed. Could have happened to any number of people landing jets that day in Memphis, particularly old ones with many, many cycles on the landing gear.

FJ

I was flying that day in MEM. I believe of all the old airframes, dc-9s, 10s, saabs, this was the only one that crashed. Hmmm....

 

[AA717driver]

Falconjet--The age and condition of the aircraft were not a contributing factor to this accident.

Crashing an airplane does not fall into the category of "there are those who have and those who will". AND, I've found that the best women pilots out there aren't the ones featured in ANY news story about how great it is that they made it in a "man's world". They just go do their job and live their lives.

SUNDOWN--You've been in this business a long time if you have 8,000 hours. How can you not be aware of UAL's deplorable hiring practices in the '90's? (And the equally deplorable record of UAL management forcing people through training to the line who should have still been instructing on 152's...)TC

 

[Flyer1015]

I was the first one to post her name, so I'll defend myself:

I didn't search around much for it. Her name is in the news release just about EVERYWHERE with the exception of the NTSB preliminary report.

The second link about her was found by simply googling her name. Again, anyone could have found this info.

 

[VaB]

Good post Falcon Jet.

For everyone bashing her, you've got some cajones if you're in the same business as she is (probably soon to be "was").

Karma has a funny way of working itself out.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Fedex hired her after flying the Dash-8 ???

Kind of a big jump in size, speed and complexity, between a Dash-8 and an MD-11....Oh well all that counts is the number of hours and the right gender, to be hired I guess...

The only person I personally know who flies for FedEx is male and never flew anything bigger than a Beech 1900 prior to being hired there.

And FalconJet, how dare you post such drivel?

In the end it was the check airman's fault more than the FO's fault, IMHO. He shouldn't have let the situation get that out of hand.

 

[720degpersec]

I hate to even jump in here, but I feel that I must say a few things.

The first is, it sounds like there are a lot of guys (generic) who have never made a bad landing in their life. I'm hoping that you continue to shine like that throughout the rest of your career.

Falconjet,

There is a difference between a bad landing and a landing gear collapse. I landed the MD-11 hard , really HARD, right after I upgraded from a medium-sized jet. I was flying with a check airman and he let me mishandle the horse...like you said it is a learning process, and it can only be learnt by yourself....UP TO A CERTAIN AIRFRAME STRESS LIMIT !!!

FAR Part 25.487, which regulates Rebound landing conditions, will show you the landing gear has to sustain a load factor of 20.0 G.