NPA BoD endorses last-minute T.A.

[Max Eaper]

No concessions!

 

[Stewie]

The union leadership is a joke....

If we started a push for ALPA I'd be all for it. They worked better at my previous carrier.....A REGIONAL!!! This Union is no match for our management. We need experience and resources and political clout to get taken seriously. I realize some people don't like/hate ALPA but I have to ask....how much worse can it get? You gonna tell me that with ALPA on property we'd get pushed around by management as much as we do with this Union?

As for the nickle and diming us on this concessionary set of TA's/Final offers.......forget it. So far the only contract that looked half way acceptable to me was the initial proposal the NPA put out 2 years ago. Until I see something like that. I'm voting YES,YES,NO....ALPA!!!(if that comes up)

 

[Lear70]

Just like each version of this, I'll read it, seek info from people smarter than me (meaning alot of people), then I'll vote.

Can't ask for more than that. I'm just ecstatic guys will really READ it this time, and not just buy whatever comes out of the NPA's mouth at the road shows.

Ask the hard questions!

Rich, I'll thank you in advance for the hard work and hours you'll be putting into examining this latest version, but I disagree with the concept of voting one way or the other before actually looking at the product.

I understand exactly what you mean. The only reason I say that is because Scope is a personal hot-button topic of mine and I've verified that there are no changes to what was in there from the last (version 4) of the T.A. that came out last week.

Therefore: Yes, yes, no, without needing to read much more. I'm just not interested in concessions in ANY department, for ANY seniority group of pilots, for ANY reasons.

But I won't ask you to do anything until you read it. Then I'll come back and bug you again... k? :beer:

*Please don't try to convince me otherwise, that would be like trying to convince me to be a Browns' or Ravens' fan.

Ummm... that would be a No.

But I might sneak a Cowboys sticker into your kit bag when you're not looking (won't actually put it on the bag, just a hint).

I wonder if unlimited turbo props is still in there?

Yes, it is. Along with unlimited 50-seaters, 50-79 seaters being capped by ASM's (around 40 or so at current fleet size) plus 25 79-86 seaters means they could run about 100 or so RJ's and Q-400's if they really wanted to.

Don't see it happening now, especially with gate space at a premium in ATL, but in our future expansion, especially with a mid-western base? You betcha, and I don't think that's more than a couple 2 or 3 years away at most.

If we started a push for ALPA I'd be all for it. They worked better at my previous carrier.....A REGIONAL!!! This Union is no match for our management. We need experience and resources and political clout to get taken seriously. I realize some people don't like/hate ALPA but I have to ask....how much worse can it get? You gonna tell me that with ALPA on property we'd get pushed around by management as much as we do with this Union?

And it may come to that. Seriously.

Do some reading back on my posts, you'll see some of the angst I've had with them in the past, but a couple things to bear in mind.

1. ALPA has rules. The kind that the current NPA leadership is breaking left and right. The kind of rule-breaking that makes us angry. There would be none of that with ALPA in-house.

2. ALPA isn't a fix-all. It still depends largely on WHO YOU ELECT to LEAD the pilots and how willing you are to get involved. Unions don't run themselves, they require pilots doing the right things EVERY DAY, including showing up for picketing events when called. You have to get involved in your own career.

So choose very, very wisely who you want to succeed Allen. If you want ALPA on property, make sure you find a candidate who would work to make that happen IF the pilot group as a MAJORITY wanted it.

If you want action and support, pick a pilot who's going to be in the office every day or have the office staffed every day with someone who can answer questions and back you up 24/7.

If you want to trust the union, pick a pilot who's going to push for changes to the bylaws that make ALL the union officials ACCOUNTABLE to YOU, the LINE PILOT. Sure, it'll make it more difficult to do the day-to-day work of the NPA, but it's WORTH IT to have the TRUST and SOLIDARITY OF YOUR PILOTS!

The current NPA has missed that basic tenant of Leadership. Be accountable, be transparent, be available, be reliable, and you will engender trust and faith.

Vote well, my friends. Vote well...

 

[c9skytrain]

For you guys wanting to wait and read the new new new TA go for it. Just keep in mind that is probably what you said the two other times. Just don't get your hopes up.

So I guess you are not going to actually read it before acting. Do you get your loans that way? I try to assume nothing.

 

[twepilot]

ps - for the individual above who is willing to accept loss of door close - are you also willing to tell all the FAs that you voted for a pay cut for them?????[/quote]

Me too clauses can be a negative.

Whats in the FA contract is the least of my worries.


RV

 

[snuba]

So I guess you are not going to actually read it before acting. Do you get your loans that way? I try to assume nothing.

If my dealing with a bank loan has been anywhere a cluster as these TA's I would not be rereading their third try. Id find a NEW BANK/LOAN!!! IF this LLFO was negotiated by a different neg comm and different Union President I would read it. I do not trust this union leadership and this TA needs to die. We need to use our current contract as a floor for negotiations not a concessionary TA.

 

[jneely]

Anything other than what we have now is a no vote period. Don't go back wards folks. As far as ALPA, remember what they did to Eastern to benefit Delta. What we need is a strong front office. Alan has got to go along all the others in that office.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Don't give up the line on scope. If AirTran wants RJ's, make them fly them with AirTran pilots.

For the kind of flying AirTran does it is a tremendous threat to your seniority list. Delta's seniority list is down from a high around 11,700 to around 6,800 before they began hiring last spring. But, in Delta's favor the senior guys had the option of running to the large 76-757 fleet performing international while watching the 737 & 727 fleet go away - a choice AirTran does not have.

A CRJ (705,900,E170) does not feed a 717, it replaces it and is more efficient. Plus the capital cost and debt goes on another carrier's bottom line.

-- IMHO not only do you need to keep your scope, you need provisiosn to put whatever feeder carrier you might be merged with on your list. The only way to avoid serious problems is to think of ways to include the vendors in some way that will make them a part of your team. No whipsaw, no replacements - you have to hold the line.

 

[HalinTexas]

Keep fighting guys. It will be worth it. You do have the Co. on their heels. It's hard to get financing when your labor is "restless."

On another note. Bringing in ALPA will not necessarily solve all your problems. They are better than IBT, but if you have the same leadership in place it is no better than what you have. This is what happened at ATA. ALPA national is in it to make money off of your dues. They provide services to the membership, for a price. They do have better resources and training, but it's still up to your local. If it stinks, the whole will smell also. National will sign off on anything. ALPA is overrated.

Buyer beware!

 

[Pancho]

When AP said something to the effect of, the best part of this new ta is it's short duration, he was admitting that the NPA or current leadership had no ability/willingness to negotiate a better deal. I believe he was also alluding to the pilots that we should sit this round out and let other pilot groups get their good deals and we could later on (read seven years) coattail their hard work in the contract improvement arena. This is the most chicken$hit policy I have ever heard of. We are in an enviable position as far as labor goes. Companies growing, management's taking bonuses/stock options and trying to buy another company. Why on God's green earth is anybody, including our union leadership discussing concessions. If we really have no negotiating leverage at this point with Airtran's financials' as they are, then it is unarguable that the problem is the NPA. First, we must recall AP and MS, MB has indicated he will run if they are recalled. I have not talked to a single soul who would not vote for MB if given the chance. Second, we need a national union that can protect our jobs, help fix our training issues, get us a contract and enforce it.