Notes on Atkin's visit to ASA crew lounge...

["GO AROUND"]

First question was why we don't have a contract yet? He started that answer with "he fired Billable Bill Hires the company lawyer as of today." That he is still committed to getting the contract done as soon as possible and they are working to do things to do that.

Profit sharing was the next topic and why we still havn't gotten much info on how it relates to us. He said that he gave a presentation to Bob and Dave this morning and that it will be offered to the pilots just like every other group.

Biggest subject was the 70 seat paycut. He was upfront and said that it needs to come down to be competitive in bidding for flying with Mesa and CHQ. It doesn't have anything to do with any other carriers than the ones we compete against for flyingfor DAL. It was put out there that what if that is not acceptable to our pilot group what would happen? "ASA would shrink" was his answer.

Someone asked if the 5 70's that went to SKW was because of our cost and he said yes. He also said that he hears terms like whipsaw between ASA and SKW and that is not what he wants. He doesn't want the two pitted against each other and make things worse but those are the facts.

Someone asked about new bases or mini hubs for ASA like SKW has. He said not at this time for the forseeable future. SLC came up again and his answer changed from last and he said SLC base is at risk for ASA but still is dependent on if DAL grows or shrinks SLC.

Someone then asked what the contingency plan was if DAL goes under? He said we would repartner with whoever picks up ATL and do it quicker than you could believe. The 26 gates in ATL are a big plus in that situation. ATL is too big a hub and there will be others to partner with.

A couple guys said they would be happy with SKW contract. Jerry was very intrigued with this and put it back to them that we would tear up our contract and use the SKW contract? I said no, that there are work rules in their ontract that are nice but there are things we have they don't.

Big subject that came up was the pass benefits ordeal. Jerry said that it was done at the end of the deal with DAL for us and that they temporarily agreed that it would be status qou for three yrs or until they worked it out. He said DAL came back in negotiations and basically told him that they owned our seats and they would go to DAL employees first. I cant show you the middle finger he gave DAL but he said that was unacceptable and told them to F*ck off. So they are at a standstill and havn't talked in about 3 mnths.

Jerry was asked about merging the 2 pilot groups and he said he was not opposed to that if it was best for all involved including the company.

A lot was talked about with the lack of trust with managment. He said that needs to be fixed, is trying to do things to facilitate that and wants ASA to be a great place to work.

It was brought up that ASA has become a career airline and that managment has made it known that if you are here longer than 5 yrs you have been here to long. He said that is not what he wants and is no longer the attitude of ASA managment as far as he knows.

My overall impression is that he is good for ASA and he didn't just sit up there and tell us what we wanted to hear. Good or bad he answered all the questions and it is what it is. As for the contract, every time they got rid of Hires we have gotten a contract in a few months. He said the union and managment sent a message to the mediator to get more dates and get the contract done.

Take it for what its worth, if I know most on here you are too far gone with animosity for managment that it wont matter.

I for one am willing to put some trust in him and believe it when I see it.

 

[PCL_128]

Someone asked if the 5 70's that went to SKW was because of our cost and he said yes. He also said that he hears terms like whipsaw between ASA and SKW and that is not what he wants. He doesn't want the two pitted against each other and make things worse but those are the facts.

What a load of crap. I hope you guys aren't gullable enough to believe this rhetoric. All documentation I have shows that ASA pilots' total compensation package is significantly less than the Skywest pilots'. This is a classic whipsaw. Don't fall for it.

 

[rjcap]

Let me translate for those not fluent in the high art of corporate bullsht

First question was why we don't have a contract yet? He started that answer with "he fired Billable Bill Hires the company lawyer as of today."

Bill is no longer the company lawyer but a high paid consultant to ASA.

Profit sharing was the next topic and why we still havn't gotten much info on how it relates to us. He said that he gave a presentation to Bob and Dave this morning and that it will be offered to the pilots just like every other group.

It will be offered just like the companys last contract proposal - completely worthless.

Biggest subject was the 70 seat paycut. He was upfront and said that it needs to come down to be competitive in bidding for flying with Mesa and CHQ. It doesn't have anything to do with any other carriers than the ones we compete against for flyingfor DAL. It was put out there that what if that is not acceptable to our pilot group what would happen? "ASA would shrink" was his answer.

Pay cut or else. More threats. ASA shrinks. The world is coming to an end.

Someone asked if the 5 70's that went to SKW was because of our cost and he said yes. He also said that he hears terms like whipsaw between ASA and SKW and that is not what he wants. He doesn't want the two pitted against each other and make things worse but those are the facts.

I'm going to whipsaw you guys until you beg for mercy.

Someone asked about new bases or mini hubs for ASA like SKW has. He said not at this time for the forseeable future. SLC came up again and his answer changed from last and he said SLC base is at risk for ASA but still is dependent on if DAL grows or shrinks SLC.

As soon as Skywest can cover the flying and I figure out how to close SLC without paying you guys a dime I'll do it !

Someone then asked what the contingency plan was if DAL goes under? He said we would repartner with whoever picks up ATL and do it quicker than you could believe. The 26 gates in ATL are a big plus in that situation.

If Delta goes under I really don't need you guys and will do whatever is in my own best interests.

 

["GO AROUND"]

What a load of crap. I hope you guys aren't gullable enough to believe this rhetoric. All documentation I have shows that ASA pilots' total compensation package is significantly less than the Skywest pilots'. This is a classic whipsaw. Don't fall for it.

Where is all this documentation? I was looking for it and did it include the 100 instructor pilots in it. Total compensation or just 70 seat?


rjcap, you obviously are one that has nothing but animosity towards any managment at ASA. Nothing anybody says will make it better for you. You're like my 2 yr old. You want what you want when you want it, don't care if you are told what you don't want to hear and throw a tantrum because of it.

 

[rjcap]

Where is all this documentation? I was looking for it and did it include the 100 instructor pilots in it. Total compensation or just 70 seat?


rjcap, you obviously are one that has nothing but animosity towards any managment at ASA. Nothing anybody says will make it better for you. You're like my 2 yr old. You want what you want when you want it, don't care if you are told what you don't want to hear and throw a tantrum because of it.

Documentation of what ?????? Sober up.

I have heard plenty of mgmt promises over the years. I'll believe it when I see it. I will make one promise to you. If JA comes through and turns this place around I will be the first to admit I was wrong and you were right.

Until then, go have some more company kool aid.

 

[PCL_128]

Where is all this documentation? I was looking for it and did it include the 100 instructor pilots in it. Total compensation or just 70 seat?

Call your status rep. He'll have the real info and not a bunch of management propoganda designed to intimidate you.

 

[rjcap]

One more thing before I go.

I have been hear long enough to hear all the fancy promises going back to Skip then Brian and now Jerry. Nothing has changed. Just different people playing musical chairs in mgmt.

Its all the same song and dance.

 

[Grassstrippilot]

Thanks for the recap. As always though, actions speak louder than words. I've been willing to give him a chance, but so far he's burned through 6 months with not much to show for it.

 

[enuffalready]

Where is all this documentation? I was looking for it and did it include the 100 instructor pilots in it. Total compensation or just 70 seat?


rjcap, you obviously are one that has nothing but animosity towards any managment at ASA. Nothing anybody says will make it better for you. You're like my 2 yr old. You want what you want when you want it, don't care if you are told what you don't want to hear and throw a tantrum because of it.

The reason he thinks that is because these are the same answers we heard from G& J, then skip, then bryan, now geriatric... I just do not listen nor care what he says anymore...take my planes... take my job.. we are all doomed... blah blah blah

 

[General Lee]

"Someone then asked what the contingency plan was if DAL goes under? He said we would repartner with whoever picks up ATL and do it quicker than you could believe. The 26 gates in ATL are a big plus in that situation. ATL is too big a hub and there will be others to partner with."



Lots of luck here. Riiiiight. How many airlines out there could fill in that much gate space (what Delta is doing now in ATL) in a short amount of time? Most Majors out there have been hurting lately thanks to high fuel, and don't have a lot of extra cash to go buy up gates or start new operations. Southwest maybe? They don't want feed. Nope. How about Jetblue? They have never used feed either, and we know what Airtran did with their RJs. Yup, ATL would go down the krapper, and your RJs would too. So, in reality, you had better hope we keep our scope, or we all may be out of a job. Amazing.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[rjcap]

Biggest subject was the 70 seat paycut. He was upfront and said that it needs to come down to be competitive in bidding for flying with Mesa and CHQ. It doesn't have anything to do with any other carriers than the ones we compete against for flyingfor DAL. It was put out there that what if that is not acceptable to our pilot group what would happen? "ASA would shrink" was his answer.

With regard to the first get together in SLC, I just noticed that the argument for the 70 seat paycut has shifted from ASA vs Skywest to ASA vs Mesa and CHQ.

I guess this guy changes his story whenever its convenient !

I know, I'm just throwing a tantrum.

 

[ohplease!]

I will make one promise to you. If JA comes through and turns this place around I will be the first to admit I was wrong and you were right.
.

I have a better idea. WHEN JA does it, and he will, you resign in shame and leave the company.

 

[ohplease!]

"Someone then asked what the contingency plan was if DAL goes under? He said we would repartner with whoever picks up ATL and do it quicker than you could believe. The 26 gates in ATL are a big plus in that situation. ATL is too big a hub and there will be others to partner with."



Lots of luck here. Riiiiight. How many airlines out there could fill in that much gate space (what Delta is doing now in ATL) in a short amount of time? Most Majors out there have been hurting lately thanks to high fuel, and don't have a lot of extra cash to go buy up gates or start new operations. Southwest maybe? They don't want feed. Nope. How about Jetblue? They have never used feed either, and we know what Airtran did with their RJs. Yup, ATL would go down the krapper, and your RJs would too. So, in reality, you had better hope we keep our scope, or we all may be out of a job. Amazing.


Bye Bye--General Lee

moron.

 

[Rogue5]

Yup, ATL would go down the krapper, and your RJs would too. So, in reality, you had better hope we keep our scope, or we all may be out of a job.

So General, by your line of reasoning, if DAL liquidates then commercial airline service in ATL and the regional feed from its outlying areas will just cease to exist?

Boy, you guys sure are important to the welfare of the South! I seem to remember the demise of a few other major airlines that went away and their previous hubs carried on just fine without them...

 

[ohplease!]

out of 1700 pilots or so, only about 50 showed up this morning and only about 6 of those opened our mouths.....pathetic for all the complaining I hear.

 

[crjskipper]

the other 1650 were sleeping soundly at home knowing their MEC would speak for them...

 

[PCL_128]

out of 1700 pilots or so, only about 50 showed up this morning and only about 6 of those opened our mouths.....pathetic for all the complaining I hear.

Sounds like 50 too many to me.

 

[Texx]

Biggest subject was the 70 seat paycut. He was upfront and said that it needs to come down to be competitive in bidding for flying with Mesa and CHQ. It doesn't have anything to do with any other carriers than the ones we compete against for flyingfor DAL. It was put out there that what if that is not acceptable to our pilot group what would happen? "ASA would shrink" was his answer.

Ask Jerry for the breakdown of costs to operate the CR7 at both airlines. Take ASA's "FLIGHT CREW COSTS" and run them out over 52 aircraft. You will see the costs come down with the more aircraft you operate.

As for Bill Hiers, he's just the Bad Cop and he will never go away.

 

[Blucher]

out of 1700 pilots or so, only about 50 showed up this morning and only about 6 of those opened our mouths.....pathetic for all the complaining I hear.

Ohplease,
This leads me to believe you were there. Just out of curiosity, what did you ask? Also, did anyone think to ask what his plans were for Skywest's 'promised' 70-seat rate? One other question for you: which office is yours in ops?

-Blucher:bomb:

 

[goodto50meters]

the other 1650 were sleeping soundly at home knowing their MEC would speak for them...

Thats good you fuc&stick.

 

[ohplease!]

Ohplease,
This leads me to believe you were there. Just out of curiosity, what did you ask? Also, did anyone think to ask what his plans were for Skywest's 'promised' 70-seat rate? One other question for you: which office is yours in ops?

-Blucher:bomb:

I was there. I made the effort on my off day to come listen and ask questions because I think it was important to be there (just as I have felt it important to walk in the informational picket lines and go to the zoo and the baseball game and the dinner and keep up with emails on the negotiations and speak to the union guys one to one and as a group). I did in fact ask several questions and I was there from the minute he walked in until the minute he walked out and into the other lounge to have lunch with some of the chief pilots.

Nope, the subject of their offer to SkyW pilots for the 70 didn't come up. But that would have been a good one to ask..why were you not there to ask it???hmmm. Its a lot easier to just stand around and bitch isn't it?

I don't have an office in there...yet.

 

[HoserASA]

out of 1700 pilots or so, only about 50 showed up this morning and only about 6 of those opened our mouths.....pathetic for all the complaining I hear.

Well, I for one wasn't there because My MEC Speaks For Me! And, I won't be there tomorrow either. I'll just go hang out at Wendys if I not flying. Apparently Jerry and the MEC met earlier this morning. See, told you the MEC speaks for me.

I believe when Bob Arnold asked Jerry about the 5 70s at the first meeting a few weeks ago, Jerry admitted that 2 or 3 of them were already scheduled deliveries for Skywest. So, someone is already lying here perhaps? Seems like his story has changed in just a couple of weeks.

Hoser
My MEC Speaks For Me!

 

[ohplease!]

Well, I for one wasn't there because My MEC Speaks For Me! And, I won't be there tomorrow either. I'll just go hang out at Wendys if I not flying. Apparently Jerry and the MEC met earlier this morning. See, told you the MEC speaks for me.

I believe when Bob Arnold asked Jerry about the 5 70s at the first meeting a few weeks ago, Jerry admitted that 2 or 3 of them were already scheduled deliveries for Skywest. So, someone is already lying here perhaps? Seems like his story has changed in just a couple of weeks.

Hoser
My MEC Speaks For Me!

well, that is of course your right. Maybe not the smartest route to take but, whatever.

He never said those 5 weren't already coming to skywest. In fact, he said 17 more are coming starting in August. I believe those are the 17 remaining planes we were going to get.We may still get them. Maybe not.

Yes they did meet this morning and it sounds like they have a pretty good dialouge going. I'm certainly glad Bob is there rather than someone like you. You have no ability to maintain an objective stance about anything and no ability to think for yourself. You'd rather be spoonfed anything you want to hear.

 

[Blucher]

"why were you not there to ask it???hmmm. Its a lot easier to just stand around and bitch isn't it?"-Ohplease

Same answer most of us have: My CNC speaks for me. I too have walked the line, I too was at the zoo, and I too was at the game all of which means what? To me it means even two individuals such as ourselves can have vastly different opinions on things even though we've attended the same events, and will both be effected profoundly by the outcome of this 'negotiation'. Perhaps it never occurred to you, but that is exactly why we need our CNC to speak for us. It's called a "united front." It's also why if were up to me I'd fill our lounge with Skywest pilots tomorrow and not have any ASA pilots present. Why is it some people have such a hard time with the concept of team sports?

-Blucher

 

[ohplease!]

"why were you not there to ask it???hmmm. Its a lot easier to just stand around and bitch isn't it?"-Ohplease

Same answer most of us have: My CNC speaks for me. I too have walked the line, I too was at the zoo, and I too was at the game all of which means what? To me it means even two individuals such as ourselves can have vastly different opinions on things even though we've attended the same events, and will both be effected profoundly by the outcome of this 'negotiation'. Perhaps it never occurred to you, but that is exactly why we need our CNC to speak for us. It's called a "united front." It's also why if were up to me I'd fill our lounge with Skywest pilots tomorrow and not have any ASA pilots present. Why is it some people have such a hard time with the concept of team sports?

-Blucher

that makes no sense at all to me.

 

[HoserASA]

well, that is of course your right. Maybe not the smartest route to take but, whatever.

I'm certainly glad Bob is there rather than someone like you. You have no ability to maintain an objective stance about anything and no ability to think for yourself. You'd rather be spoonfed anything you want to hear.

Yep, that's me, can't think for myself and love being spoonfed. Oh well, what can you expect for a Bama person like poor me, a retired USAF Controller, 16 year pilot at ASA, AU always beats us, etc, OhPlease? I'm glad Bob is there too OhPlease, so at least we apparently agree on one thing.

Hoser
My MEC Speaks For Me!

 

[outtahere]

First of all, if ASA starts to shrink the costs go up, way up. So this is probably an attempt by Jerry Atkin to scare the pants off of wussys like oh please. Second, don't you think that the moron(s) that suggested we would be happy with Skywests contract (well its not really a contract is it) should be flogged in the street. This is why my CNC speaks for me! By the way oh please, the team sports Blucher was talking about are not the homo gangbangs you attend. You know, where everyone takes it up the AZZ for pleasure.

 

[ohplease!]

Yep, that's me, can't think for myself and love being spoonfed. Oh well, what can you expect for a Bama person like poor me, a retired USAF Controller, 16 year pilot at ASA, AU always beats us, etc, OhPlease? I'm glad Bob is there too OhPlease, so at least we apparently agree on one thing.

Hoser
My MEC Speaks For Me!

well, maybe two. Bama people are not very smart, I agree there as well.

 

[HoserASA]

well, maybe two. Bama people are not very smart, I agree there as well.

Interesting comment about Alabamians OhPlease, interesting. Guess where you're from people are smarter eh? You know, I've lived in about 7 or 8 different states and 5 foreign countries (6 counting Ala), and all those places have smart people. But, then you went to college in Alabama....

Hoser
My MEC Speaks For Me!

 

[ohplease!]

Interesting comment about Alabamians OhPlease, interesting. Guess where you're from people are smarter eh? You know, I've lived in about 7 or 8 different states and 5 foreign countries (6 counting Ala), and all those places have smart people. But, then you went to college in Alabama....

Hoser
My MEC Speaks For Me!

oops! did him get hims wittle feewings hurt? awww ,I'm sorry about that. Lighten up pinhead! can't take a joke? You opened the door. I just walked through it. I didn't realize you were such a well school and sophisticated guy. My bad.