Not Paying Union Dues

[FmrFreightDog]

I want to leave that previous post up becuase I was venting, but I'm better now. Rez, you make a very good point. I think your right, ALPA has failed to show where our membership dues go. As far as I know they go to snacks and Starbucks coffee at local meetings. I would love it if ALPA would actually tell me where my $700.00 a year goes.

Actually, yes, they do occasionally go towards buying me a sandwich when I'm spending 12 hours of my OFF DAY doing volunteer work for my fellow pilots. Do you honestly have a problem with that?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

All reimbursed job related expenses get reported as income. Some are taxable, some are not. The bulk of ALPA's presidential expenses are for a home that needs to be maintained in Washington D.C. as a requirement for the job.

IOW how would you (not you Doin Time) like your company to come to you and say.. your W-2 says 50,000/year but actually you made 220,000/year.

What your company did was take all of your expenses such as the other half of your healthcare premiums and the cost of all your hotel overnights for example and claimed that as part of your income. After all, that is what you cost the company...

So how would you like it if the company said, in a nice WSJ articel, we pay our pilots "220,000/year and they want more!!"

This is what union members do to thier own.... They see an inflated "expenses reported as income" and proceed to hang the very people that are trying to help them.....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

First off I posted this on the union board and recvd one legitmate resonse and a question from Rez O Lewshun that I did not understand. "You seem to have an expectation.... is it valid?"

So maybe Rez O lewshun could shed some light on the question below. My thought is why would this guy want ot pay union dues for the type results they provide? Does not seem like a good value for the dollar to me.


Original post on the union board:
First off I want to make it clear that I'm not being a smarta$$ or wanting to start a flame war. I have a question for you folks flying 121. By admission I am ignorant of the 121 world regarding your union and management issues and what you have been putting up with regarding your salaries. I do have friends flying 121 so most of what I here is from them or on this board. I have always been a Corp 91 pilot and have been able with each move increase my salary way over what my friends make flying for the regional. To be blunt the regional pay you guys are getting is absolutely embarrassing...bottom line big time a joke. My question is this: What has your union done to address and fix this problem...frankly why have union representation with these types of slag pay rates. Honestly how much worse can it get, I'd say its hit bottom pathetic for you guys...I hate it. Good folks dedicated to doing a good job at embarrassing wages. Somebody has to step up and help you guys. I'm curious what has the union done to address this problem.

__________________

First, regional wages are so low becuase there are so many pilots needed to do the job. In addition, it is a "rite of passage" so to speak, because the benefits of wide body flying in 20 years with 15+ days off will far out weigh even your job......

Right now in this current environment, the union is holding the line. Now many directly effected by low pay will argue the union isn't doing enough, but they didn't have that arguement when they signed up.....

I stated "is your expectation valid" because the problem is far greater than "what the union is doing to fix the problem." It isn't entirely the unions burden.

Rezfully yours.....

 

[ponder]

How many teamsters does it take to screw in a light bulb?

 

[ponder]

A hundred. You got a problem with that? hahahahahaha

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I haven't had the problem others are speaking of yet. That bridge I will cross when I come to it. Let's see what the results of the PIC are first. BTW Mesa has a grievance about not getting paid propery, FILED IN 2003!!! How are all that have already left going to get paid? Either way it is an uphill battle union or not.

It's kinda sad that the only comparsisons you always make with SKYW are the bottom of the barrel of the industry...

 

[SuperKooter]

Whatever happened to "Free Association"? Isn't that part of what this country was founded on? Yet we are FORCED to pay for a union. Seems like a good case for the new supreme court, I think the way it is made up we could Finally win.

 

[PCL_128]

Whatever happened to "Free Association"? Isn't that part of what this country was founded on? Yet we are FORCED to pay for a union. Seems like a good case for the new supreme court, I think the way it is made up we could Finally win.

You aren't "forced" to join anything. You can always leave. Please do.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Whatever happened to "Free Association"? Isn't that part of what this country was founded on? Yet we are FORCED to pay for a union. Seems like a good case for the new supreme court, I think the way it is made up we could Finally win.

OK. Go into your CEO's office and negotiate your own pay and benefits package. Add in some job security language as well. Think you'll have much luck?

You pay union dues because you do this collectively -- from a position of relative strength. If you think you can negotiate a better deal on your own, by all means, feel free.

Let us know how your one-on-on negotiations go.

 

[paulsalem]

Whatever happened to "Free Association"? Isn't that part of what this country was founded on? Yet we are FORCED to pay for a union. Seems like a good case for the new supreme court, I think the way it is made up we could Finally win.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[paulsalem]

OK. Go into your CEO's office and negotiate your own pay and benefits package. Add in some job security language as well. Think you'll have much luck?

You pay union dues because you do this collectively -- from a position of relative strength. If you think you can negotiate a better deal on your own, by all means, feel free.

Let us know how your one-on-on negotiations go.

The rest of the world does it that way.

If a marketing specialist quits after 10 years of work experience, he can go to another marketing firm and negotiate for a compensation package that is equal to his 10 years of experience.


That way you can negotiate your compensation packaged (pay, benefits, vacation, perks etc.) to meet your own needs and lifestyle.

 

[GogglesPisano]

The rest of the world does it that way.

If a marketing specialist quits after 10 years of work experience, he can go to another marketing firm and negotiate for a compensation package that is equal to his 10 years of experience.


That way you can negotiate your compensation packaged (pay, benefits, vacation, perks etc.) to meet your own needs and lifestyle.

OK. How many marketing specialists are willing to work for $18K a year to "fly a desk." Not many. No SJS in that field.

Your competition -- as a pilot -- is twenty-somethings willing to fly a jet for peanuts. There are people out there that pay to work -- an MBA's wet dream. Foreign carriers have proven that hiring low-timers ab initio works.

Pilot wages are artificially elevated because of collective bargaining. Without it we would all be making about half of what we do now -- probably a third in the case of FedEx/UPS.

 

[paulsalem]

OK. How many marketing specialists are willing to work for $18K a year to "fly a desk." Not many. No SJS in that field.

Your competition -- as a pilot -- is twenty-somethings willing to fly a jet for peanuts. There are people out there that pay to work -- an MBA's wet dream. Foreign carriers have proven that hiring low-timers ab initio works.

Pilot wages are artificially elevated because of collective bargaining. Without it we would all be making about half of what we do now -- probably a third in the case of FedEx/UPS.

I don't know about all of that, seems to be some fuzzy math involved, with large assumptions.

In the corporate industry the salaries are decent, in my opinion. I don’t know of any operators that are unionized. Take a look at the Scranton salary survey. But I’ll admit that it is a lot harder to break into that side of the industry.

In all fields there are people who do the job for more than the pay. In aviation we have hours. In most other fields you have years of “relevant work experience”. If you have no real worried experience you must settle for a lower paying job, or perhaps an unpaid internship. $20,000 isn't an ucommon starting point for a new college grad.

You can’t get an internship with a regional carrier flying 121 for the summer. So the gulfstream program is the closest substitute.

Artificial anything in our economy can only end up hurting the industry. Let supply and demand work it out. What is good for the industry is good for the all the workers. If my airline is profitable, there is a greater chance that I will stay employed, which is a very good start in this industry.

The great money trick is an amazing and eye opening story.

The bottom line is, if you want to be rich, you need to OWN the business, not work for it.

http://prahalathan.blogspot.com/2006/01/great-money-trick.html

 

[BoilerUP]

You can’t get an internship with a regional carrier flying 121 for the summer. So the gulfstream program is the closest substitute.

bullsh!t. I did one for RAH and had friends that did them at ASA and Comair. They're plenty out there, you've just got to look.

You don't have to be in the union, but you have to pay the same dues in the form of a fee. After all, you're acting on your principles and refusing to join the evil union yet you are directly benefitting from the union's collective bargaining on your behalf. And just in case you didn't know...aviation is not "every other industry out there". Flight crews are labor not management...and that is a very important distinction to make when talking compensation.

 

[merlindrvr88]

Grandfather clause

You don't have to pay if you were there before the union came on property. If it was after, you are screwed. I feel your pain.