Northwest trying to outsource pilots!

[lumax]

Northwest plans flight attendant outsourcing

Report: Airline wants to save by farming out its prized overseas routes


MSNBC News Services
Updated: 9:03 a.m. ET Oct. 26, 2005

Northwest Airlines is planning to outsource some of the positions filled by senior flight attendants on its coveted international routes according to a report in Wednesday’s Wall Street Journal.
Emboldened by its success in beating a mechanics strike with an army of replacement workers, the move is another sign that the airline, which filed for bankruptcy-court protection last month, wants to become a “virtual airline,” with all sorts of jobs previously claimed by organized labor outsourced to cheaper workers according to the newspaper report — a tactic the paper says other airlines may be forced to copy.
Northwest told its bankruptcy-court judge earlier this month that it will ask the court at a Nov. 16 hearing to cancel its current labor contracts if the unions do not agree by the middle of November to new conditions that would save hundreds of millions of dollars a year the newspaper reported. The airline is also trying to outsource pilot and ground-worker jobs, the paper said.


When is management going to see labor as an asset rather than a liability?
Companies that have realized that are successful, SWA, Costco.

 

[icefr8dawg]

When is management going to see labor as an asset rather than a liability?
Companies that have realized that are successful, SWA, Costco.

Not to mention Pan Am, Eastern and American...

 

[zonker]

I have a hard time believing that there isn't a well-educated Asian or Indian executive out there who could do Steenland's job at 25 cents on the dollar.

Maybe the board should look into this.

 

[Chronic Jetlag]

outsource the ceo

I have a hard time believing that there isn't a well-educated Asian or Indian executive out there who could do Steenland's job at 25 cents on the dollar.

Maybe the board should look into this.

Try 10 cents on the dollar! Steenland won't be done until he sells the entire company.

 

[sleeves]

We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.

- Ben Franklin

 

[jetexas]

Northwest plans flight attendant outsourcing

Report: Airline wants to save by farming out its prized overseas routes


MSNBC News Services
Updated: 9:03 a.m. ET Oct. 26, 2005

Northwest Airlines is planning to outsource some of the positions filled by senior flight attendants on its coveted international routes according to a report in Wednesday’s Wall Street Journal.
Emboldened by its success in beating a mechanics strike with an army of replacement workers, the move is another sign that the airline, which filed for bankruptcy-court protection last month, wants to become a “virtual airline,” with all sorts of jobs previously claimed by organized labor outsourced to cheaper workers according to the newspaper report — a tactic the paper says other airlines may be forced to copy.
Northwest told its bankruptcy-court judge earlier this month that it will ask the court at a Nov. 16 hearing to cancel its current labor contracts if the unions do not agree by the middle of November to new conditions that would save hundreds of millions of dollars a year the newspaper reported. The airline is also trying to outsource pilot and ground-worker jobs, the paper said.


When is management going to see labor as an asset rather than a liability?
Companies that have realized that are successful, SWA, Costco.

I wonder if the traveling public would balk at that? I guess as long as the flight arrives on time and tickets remain dirt cheap, they won't care?

 

[TWA Dude]

I guess as long as the flight arrives on time and tickets remain dirt cheap, they won't care?

Not only is that true but it's always been the case. Unions are weak and bankruptcy-boosted management is strong right now. Welcome to the 21st century.

 

[Hamburgler]

I think this is indicative of a major trend that not many people are paying attention to - the one of outsourcing upper middle-class white collar jobs like accounting, etc. (People notic it but there is not the outcry there is over US companies taking major factory jobs overseas, etc.)

I'm reading The World Is Flat by Thomas Friedman, very interesting argument that can increasingly be applied to the aviation industry...

 

[Jimdandy]

Thanks to George W. Bush!

Labor will never have a chance to stand up to mgmt with guys like him in office appting. judges and magistrates and making policy - we are all FUBARed

 

[Captain Overs]

We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.

- Ben Franklin

Exactly what does this post have to do with treason?

 

[FlyinScotsman]

Thanks to George W. Bush!

Labor will never have a chance to stand up to mgmt with guys like him in office appting. judges and magistrates and making policy - we are all FUBARed

Why is it Georges fault??

It is the state of the industry, it has arrived at this point through many administrations, to blame George is a little short sighted. The industry didn't arrive at this point overnight.

 

[Rogue5]

Flight Crew outsourcing has been going on for a long time by putting "regional" aircraft and crews on mainline routes and by giving them larger and larger aircraft with lower pay and benefits.

Seems like NWA is just trying to play catchup to the likes of DAL, UAL, etc...

 

[Ty Webb]

I have to laugh at these clowns that blame everything on George Bush. I guess when you don't understand a complex problem, it makes you feel better to have someone to blame, even if they don't have anything to do with your particular problem.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

I have to laugh at these clowns that blame everything on George Bush. I guess when you don't understand a complex problem, it makes you feel better to have someone to blame, even if they don't have anything to do with your particular problem.

I'm glad you understand the "complex problem" we have.

Republican administrations have always been less friendly to organized labor. I guess they're not happy that unions give almost all their political contributions to Democrats. Personally, I have to laugh at pilots that like to think of themselves as something other than working class union labor, and vote Republican. Then they can't figure out why the administration and congress isn't concerned about issues like pension reform.

 

[Dumbluck]

Get back on track,


Read between the lines, if NWA is publicly stating that their thinking about outsourceing International pilot/FA's, generally the most senior of the group, I bet that this is a tactic to get senior employees to take a early retirement, when it comes available. It would save mgt. a big fight with the most stalwart group of pilots when the concession talks begin

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Flight Crew outsourcing has been going on for a long time by putting "regional" aircraft and crews on mainline routes and by giving them larger and larger aircraft with lower pay and benefits.

Seems like NWA is just trying to play catchup to the likes of DAL, UAL, etc...

How's the union drive going at SkyWest?

Good luck to you guys. I hope you can finally organize.

GP

 

[Ty Webb]

Republican administrations have always been less friendly to organized labor. I guess they're not happy that unions give almost all their political contributions to Democrats.

Labor was in a downward spiral during CLinton's 8 years, chief. Don't kid yourself. Politicians get their money from corporations and wealthy shareholders.

Personally, I have to laugh at pilots that like to think of themselves as something other than working class union labor, and vote Republican.

Personally, I have to laugh at message-board pilots that think that things would have been better under John Kerry! If that was the best the Democratic party could offer, no wonder they lost.

Maybe, instead of blaming Bush, you should blame the DNC for giving America such a lousy slate of contenders . . . . and then they name Dean to head the party. You really want those buffoons running the country?

Not me.

 

[SWAPoolie]

Maybe the pilots and FAs should have supported the mechanics.

 

[airmasn]

Maybe the pilots and FAs should have supported the mechanics.

NWA probably would have declared bankruptcy that much quicker, thus removing any leverage (if there ever was any) from the remaining unions. Management would have accomplished their goals that much quicker.

 

[pilotyip]

This was a Crandall AAL idea, 1989 proposal, that AAL would become a marketing company selling tickets on routes. Then companies would bid to fly those routes. Low bidder gets the route. Iaccoa proposed this for Chrysler in 1979, Chrysler would design cars, have dealer network and farm out all the manufacturing to the low bidder, if the unions and banks did not go along with the reorganization plan. Look at them today, they are the only profitable N. American auto maker. This is not something new.

 

[wms]

Maybe the pilots and FAs should have supported the mechanics.

Exactly! If Duane Woerth had done the right thing in the beginning he'd be fighting the fight on the AMFA's turf. Burying your head in the sand usually gets you bitten in the rear.

 

[wms]

This was a Crandall AAL idea, 1989 proposal, that AAL would become a marketing company selling tickets on routes. Then companies would bid to fly those routes. Low bidder gets the route. Iaccoa proposed this for Chrysler in 1979, Chrysler would design cars, have dealer network and farm out all the manufacturing to the low bidder, if the unions and banks did not go along with the reorganization plan. Look at them today, they are the only profitable N. American auto maker. This is not something new.

Some airlines no longer want to be airlines, they just want to be "seat-brokers". The one's that survive will be the ones that streamline, integrate and globalize while keeping the operation easily manageable. The ones that sell off profitable ventures, out-source and become large unorganized conglomerates will fall.

 

[Superpilot92]

There is always some idiot out in left field just waiting for the opportunity to blame Bush. Dont you idiots realize how stupid you sound. The industry, the hurricanes, the fires, terrorism, etc. Its getting really old.

 

[Jimdandy]

Ty webb your a fool.

Hair on fire is correct we are blue collar working men that is how the IRS classifies our job.

Ty Webb is one of those that votes republican and thinks he is above everyone else and then when his union has no power he just cries and cries and says well it is a very complex problem.

 

[ThisistheDream]

I saw some foriegn crews training at NATCO, on the 747-400 and A320's, so the replacement pilots are already being trained. NWA wants to have US crews pilots FA fly over seas and when they get there have foriegn crews take over!!!!!! this will be fun

 

[Av8rPHX]

I wonder if the traveling public would balk at that? I guess as long as the flight arrives on time and tickets remain dirt cheap, they won't care?

Yet they still b*tch and moan all the time. Commuting home on a Cactus flight last weekend I sat next to a passenger that was saying how much she paid for her ticket (under 250 r/t) and that she had only flown "American West" once before, anyways... she flagged one of the FAs down after we had gotten out of sterile, and asked what the meal was going to be today, well she was totally appauled when the FA told her that there was no meal service on board, only buy on board snack boxes. Of course she turned to me and told me how she "paid good money for this ticket" and that they should serve a meal,etc... I just left it alone, really didnt want to get into why this industry sucks with a pax... just wanted to sleep for 2.5 hours

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

This was a Crandall AAL idea, 1989 proposal, that AAL would become a marketing company selling tickets on routes. Then companies would bid to fly those routes. Low bidder gets the route. Iaccoa proposed this for Chrysler in 1979, Chrysler would design cars, have dealer network and farm out all the manufacturing to the low bidder, if the unions and banks did not go along with the reorganization plan. Look at them today, they are the only profitable N. American auto maker. This is not something new.

That's right! I can see JetBlue buying the Song aircraft from Delta if they get desperate enough for cash and even codesharing with a foreign carrier like Emirates. It can happen!!

Some of you are worried about JetBlue's debt. But if the profitability comes back in 2006 banks will be knocking down their door to do some deals.

Of course I see NWA doing this first. If they do it, others will try to follow.

 

[ackattacker]

I have to stop logging into flightinfo. It's too depressing. This is the most depressing thread yet. In five years the industry goes from $300k/year jobs to "Welcome to McAirline, would you like fries with that?" Outsourcing international routes? I'm not even sure how that even saves money. It just screws the NWA pilots "becase they can". Pretty soon NWA is going to be like USair, and lose all their business travelers because of crappy service from disgruntled employees.

 

[pilotyip]

This is still a great career, where else can a high school grad make $100K/yr by his early to mid 30's doing something he loves to do? If you are lucky you might get on somewhere and make $150K/yr. Where else can you go and make that kind of money with the time off a pilot has? Too many negative vibes

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Tell us one more time how you didn't go to college, pilotyip.