No More Hats at ExpressJet

[propjockey]

That's for sure!

Edited to correct errors and add back part of what I wrote that was accidentally deleted when I first posted...

people get EMOTIONAL about the hat issue

Quit because we don't like wearing a hat and voice an opinion? Please! I'm so tired of hearing the "if you don't like it then leave" argument about everything. How do you ever change anything for the better without dialogue?

My dad went to the airlines after 20 years as a Navy pilot. Though he wore the required uniform and always looked clean and neat, he commented to me privately on more than one occasion about the "mickey-mouse," pseudo-military airline garb. For better or worse, his attitudes are somewhat reflected in me.

You should have seen some of the first-time 121 pilots in my newhire class at my current (hat optional) regional. Some of them were gushing all over themselves trying on hats when the uniform fitter came. When logic and lack of finances dictated restraint (you can always buy it later), emotion bought the hat. I wonder how many still wear them after finding out what a pain in the butt they are to tote around, especially if you commute.

There is nothing wrong with wearing a hat, but there are definitely a few Walter Mitty types in the airlines who think putting on a hat makes them a pilot. Looking like a million bucks is pointless if you can't fly.

My professionalism wouldn't be diminished one iota if our company uniform consisted of khaki pants and a polo shirt, especially in summer.

 

[I.P. Freley]

I do have to say I think this is the first thread ever where PBR, IP, and myself are on the same side.

Hey, I'm just reaching out with understanding, trying to bring all sides together in these divisive times...

 

[StaySeated]

Oooooohhhh aaahhhhhh, look at that dork's HAT!

Sorry but I say the hat must to go. For those of you that think that the no shoe wearing, no teeth having, just drank an entire PLASTIC 1.75 bottle of vodka on the way to the airport, flying public thinks were cool because of a $3 hat that costs us $100 your a tool. Didn't "line pilots" (d@mn that sounds soooo cooool!) used to wear hats and cold weather gear and scarves and goggles? I say that in the spirit of tradition we all must wear the traditional Capt. Dave Behncke garb immediately or else the flying public will lose all respect. The guys that insist on wearing "the hat" are the same ones that can't refer to themselves as "Mike" or "Frank", it has to be "Capt. Smith" (said with lots of authority) or "Capt. Rizzo".

 

[Vortilon]

Let me get this straight....we're referencing Continental now as if they set some standard for pilot uniforms? I've never seen a sloppier looking bunch of pilots as a whole. I didn't realize yellow armpit stains, non-starched shirts with the old iron-on-wings, and overall sloppy appearance is something we should strive for.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Hey from websters,

Main Entry: jack·ass
Pronunciation: 'jak-"as
Function: noun
1 : DONKEY; especially : a male donkey
2 : a stupid person : FOOL
3 : PBRStreetgang

The hat is part of the uniform. Just in case you did not know junior the airline pilot uniform originated from the naval officer uniform. So I guess our brothers and sisters in arms whack-off and go to the airport in their uniform right?

The issue here is not professionalism jerkoff. The issue is that not too long ago the hat was part of the traditional airline pilot uniform which was required by all airlines. When someone applied to these jobs they knew that in the public eye the hat was required to be worn. Now in these more relaxed times airlines are allowing the hat to be optional or don't even have the hat as part of the required uniform. If that is the case then so be it. If you don't wear the hat or do not have one that is fine but don't sit here and mock the ones that feel the hat has more meaning than just an object you put on your head. Besides, your woman loves to wear my hat while she plays with my thrust lever.

"Do we need to wear hats to be professional? Probably not. However, we do need them to look professional in the eyes of the traveling public? What is our professional indicator and how will the public know? Are we professional if the public thinks we aren’t? We may just find out…"


"If you don't want to wear the hat then why don't you quit your job. There are thousands of airline pilots out there on the street that would love to be wearing that hat right now."
Well...
After looking at your avatar and discription, I can only conclude you are frustrated from the necessity of wearing a square full body condom while you are being punked by your boyfriend, whom is wearing the same. Hey why don't you put on your uniform(hat too) and go back to the airport on your days off, that way you will only have to buy uniforms, square full body condoms and a vat of KY.
PBR

 

[Cardenal]

I'd love to know the basis for asserting that hats make one look professional. I'd like to see data, experimentally derived, supporting that assertion. Maybe, just maybe it was seen as a sign of status YEARS ago. Now, greyhound bus drivers and milkmen wear these things. As I said in a prior thread, pilots love to argue they are "professionals", comparing themselves to doctors & lawyers. But they insist on wearing hats, to the snickering amusement of those same people.

So, if you see the world through the eyes of a cop or some similar type job, go ahead and strut about with your hat on. But don't assert people think you are a professional because you wear the silly thing.

As an aside, just like most restaurants that have "gourmet" in their name aren't, (and hotels that say "luxury", etc) most persons that are overly concerned with being seen as "professionals" are just socially insecure.

Relax, do your job, enjoy it, and get with the times.

My .02

 

[nimtz]

I've never seen a sloppier looking bunch of pilots as a whole. I didn't realize yellow armpit stains, non-starched shirts with the old iron-on-wings, and overall sloppy appearance is something we should strive for.

Those slobs (which I agree with you on to an extent) work for one of the better legacy carriers both in financials and customer loyality. Tells me that perhaps uniform appearence doesn't mean jack to public image. Looking good in a uniform has nothing to do with the heat incubator on your head.

What we should all strive for is for each pilot group to be as happy as possible and if a silly thing like knocking away the hat policy helps then so be it. I can guarentee you that I will see but a few hats at work next time I go in.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

We'll find out who the real Hat nazis are now!!!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

NWA got rid of the hat requirement. At SWA the ratio I was told is about 70/30. With 30% wearing thier hat. JB has no hat. FedEx has no hat, but you can get one and I have seen a couple of guys wearing theirs to jumpseat.

So far the repsonders to this thread have agrued against the hat as simply uncomfortable. Arguements against the hat becuase it is unsafe, unpopular with the public or projects a poor image are difficult to make.

One NWA pilot told me when jumpseating on my flight that he wears his hat overseas because he gets better 'service', from other airline workers and passengers. The hat or the pilot, rather, is better respected. Tell me who doesn't want to be respected? In addition when you are in charge of million dollar equipment, peoples lives, and the reputation of your airline and country.. respect is a good thing....

Long gone are the days of Pan Am where the company forbid it's pilots to be seen carrying their own luggage. When uniform blazers were never taken off in public. Companies do not have time or money for this kind of image!

But we do. When you see a regional jet crew, do you know who the FA is? Does it matter...? Yes it does, because we need to be known as a unique employee group within the industry. (because we are!) Getting rid of the hat blends our image in with the rest of the airline workers. Respectfully to them, they make less than we do but when we negotiate our hourly rate we need to be as unique and different from the them as possible.

Management would love to group all airline workers into one category. From aircraft cleaners to pilots....

Many pilots do not wear there hat out of rebellion to management. Not a bad reason, but this kind of rebel yell doesn't work when the requirement is no longer there. We need to carve ourselves out of the industry as a unified cohesive group of employees. The public needs to know who we are and that we are worth it.

There is only so much to negotiate out of the small ticket prices nowadays, we need to get the most of that price as we can. Image, appearance and behavior, is the one thing we can easily control.

Another reason to at least keep your hat is formal occasions. Although rare, I will attend the next pilots’ funeral, not in my leather uniform jacket, but in my uniform blazer and hat. It is a proper image to pay ones respect.

Whenever the image of an airline pilot wants to be conveyed to the public, a hat is quite often used. Although hats are optional at my carrier, the new advertising campaign has pilots wearing their hats. Advertisements in flying magazines for professional flight schools have pilots with hats.

Does anyone who has conducted a strike have an opinion of the hat while on strike? Pilots are always wearing their hats when waling the line or conducting informational campaigns. It is the image.

The hat isn’t that comfortable, but neither is my paycheck. Consider the National image of a US Air Line Pilot. Could it be better, stronger, more respectable and more effective? Let’s define our image instead of a bottom dollar industry defining us.

But is it hard when your airline goes with the option and your fellow pilots throw their lids frisbee-style into the nearest trash can and you are the only one in the crewroom wearing a hat. Now what was normal is now dorky. In fact going against the group or the popular trend is very difficult, especially with comments like, ‘Nice F-ing hat’ or ‘what are you wearing your hat for’

The current has been changing and shifting for a long time... And we pilots are trying to survive adrift just like everyone else... But I'd rather attach a small rudder to my raft and call it a boat, then have some one call my raft a piece of drift wood. A little control in our direction, image and fate is ok, isn't it.?

 

[Air Biscuit]

The uniform doesn't make one **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** bit of difference whether somebody flies on your airline or not. Put the Southwest pilots in shorts and t-shirts and they'll still be selling the same amount of tickets guaranteed. The flying public could give two sh!ts what you're paid or how you're dressed. It's sad but true. They want a cheap ticket period.

 

[CRJDog]

"Do we need to wear hats to be professional? Probably not. However, we do need them to look professional in the eyes of the traveling public? What is our professional indicator and how will the public know? Are we professional if the public thinks we aren’t? We may just find out…"


"If you don't want to wear the hat then why don't you quit your job. There are thousands of airline pilots out there on the street that would love to be wearing that hat right now."
Well...
After looking at your avatar and discription, I can only conclude you are frustrated from the necessity of wearing a square full body condom while you are being punked by your boyfriend, whom is wearing the same. Hey why don't you put on your uniform(hat too) and go back to the airport on your days off, that way you will only have to buy uniforms, square full body condoms and a vat of KY.
PBR

Dude, when was the last time you were drug tested? Square full body condom?

Oh Oh Oh and.....got a better comeback?

Keep trying junior.

 

[wahoo250]

pay me more money and ill wear the hat

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Dude, when was the last time you were drug tested? Square full body condom?

Oh Oh Oh and.....got a better comeback?

Keep trying junior.

Drug testing? Because I think your position and arguments are silly? Ok here come the crayons, pay close attention..... Nahhh you wont' get it. I will leave it with,
Have a nice day!
PBR

 

[lj1313]

Someone please take a digital photo of the new wings and hat device! Havent seen them yet but have heard ALL kinds of bad junk.

 

[JimNtexas]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]Crews,


Do we need to wear hats to be professional? Probably not. However, we do need them to look professional in the eyes of the traveling public? What is our professional indicator and how will the public know? Are we professional if the public thinks we aren’t? We may just find out…

Let's debate baby![/font]

Dude, did you just arrive from the past? I'm 52, a frequent member of the traveling public, I wore hats for 20 years in the service, and I think you look silly in a hat.

As an airline pilot you are only outside for your preflight, where your hat is a FOD hazzard.

This is the 21st Century. Hats stopped being cool when JFK refused to wear them.

I flew from Maui to LAX on AA the other day, sitting near the front. Not only did not see hats on the pilots, the pilots didn't wear ties either. Somehow we made it safely.

If you want to have a "professional" image then work on customer service and forget about the hat.

 

[I.P. Freley]

As an airline pilot you are only outside for your preflight, where your hat is a FOD hazzard.

I guess you don't know anything about the life of a regional pilot, especially the life of a 19-seat airplane driver.

But at least you aren't being condescending or anything. That's refreshing.

 

[Axel]

The real reason all the kids don't like their hats is that the hat interferes with the ipod that they have plugged into the ICS.

 

[JimNtexas]

Its just a hat.

I guess you're right. Sometimes a hat is just a hat.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

your missing the point....

Fellas,

Whenever the hat issue comes up it quickly gets side tracked into ego mania. It's not about inflating ones ego.. It's about the preception of the public... The arguement for the hat is tha same as for a tie.....




Quote:

I hate paying good money for airline tickets.

The pilots look like slobs. Some wear hats, some don't, some just carry them. Loose ties, black sneakers with velco flaps, shirts that look like they have been worn for three days, chewed up hotel pens, faded cotton docker pants, Eddie Bauer thermal tech vests....

If these slobs dress like this I wonder how much they really care about safety.

How can I respect these clowns if they don't respect themselves.

Oh well, I'm probably the only one that thinks like this, but it is my money.....

I think I'll rent a car and take a nice road trip....





Hell Yes.... That is the point!

The WHOLE point of the hat is to look professional infront of the paying public. They are the ones paying to fly. I dont care if you FEEL professional enough without it. Joe Blow average american doesnt know that. It may give them a whole lot more faith in those flying the airplane if the pilots look neat and polished.

Stop bitching and wear the f'ing thing.....



PRIDE

​

There are some people in this industry (the minority) who have no pride in their job. Being an airline pilot used to carry a great deal of respect in the eyes of the public. This is most certainly not the case now, and I believe part of the reason is pukes like you who wont wear the Uniform with the respect it is due. Thousands of pilots for almost a hundred years have distinguished themselves from the general public by wearing some type of Uniform. Look that word up in a dictionary, read the meaning and then commit it to memory. It means you stand with your brother and sister pilots together as one. The bickering and infighting on this board shows why this profession is on the long downhill spiral it is. We lost sight of who and what we are.
Like any member of a team we should appear to the outside to be one, you dont see Tom Brady or Brett Farvre saying they dont want to wear socks, or wear a helmet which is a different colour from their teammates. The uniform is there to keep us together and equal in the eyes of the public.
I have heard passengers comment on pilots who do not wear their hats, in my opinion HAT= Pilot, No HAT= flight attendant. thanx for the rant, Mung. (I wear my hat)

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

What do you want to bet that the Clipper Captains garnered a hell of a lot of respect back then in their full uniform, than you do now?
Good post above, Rez.

 

[AviatorTx]

This debate shows what is nice about the XJT hat policy.

If you don't like the hat. Don't wear it.

If you like the hat, STFU and wear the darn thing, but stop telling everyone else how much more professional you think you look.

 

[Air Biscuit]

This debate shows what is nice about the XJT hat policy.

If you don't like the hat. Don't wear it.

If you like the hat, STFU and wear the darn thing, but stop telling everyone else how much more professional you think you look.

That sums it up in a nutshell. I will still think that the guys who wear it because they think it's cool are dorks though.

 

[T-Gates]

If you like the hat, STFU and wear the darn thing, but stop telling everyone else how much more professional you think you look.

The likers of the hat aren't the only ones that neet to STFU. When I was at PCL I always got sh!t from the guys that didn't wear thier hat... I never told anybody to wear thier hat, but plenty of people tried to tell me to take the dam n thing off when it was company policy to wear it in view of the public.

As for those that think that they don't get paid enough to wear the hat,
QUIT AND FIND ANOTHER JOB! What other rules don't you follow because you don't think you are well compensated? If you don't get paid enough....LEAVE!

 

[AviatorTx]

It's your prerogative if you want to look like a dork.

 

[Air Biscuit]

What other rules don't you follow because you don't think you are well compensated?

All of them. I break every rule I can, simply because I don't give a sh!t. How about that T-Gates. Why don't you quit, you by the book geek.

 

[Smoked Toilet]

Only reason I bought the hat is for my girlfriend. It's hot... if ya catch the drift.. Thy hat shall not be worn.

 

[T-Gates]

All of them. I break every rule I can, simply because I don't give a sh!t. How about that T-Gates. Why don't you quit, you by the book geek.

Suddenly I feel like I am in a room of high-school kids again.... So lemme ask, are you going to give your F/O's sh!t if they wear thier hats?

 

[Corona]

My dad went to the airlines after 20 years as a Navy pilot. Though he wore the required uniform and always looked clean and neat, he commented to me privately on more than one occasion about the "mickey-mouse," pseudo-military airline garb. For better or worse, his attitudes are somewhat reflected in me.

I have to agree most w/ this statement. I entered the military at an early age, so proper wear of uniforms is perrmanently branded into my soft head. I often see crew walking through the terminal with hats pushed up so far up the brim is pointing at the ceiling; uniform blazers completely unbuttoned and flapping in the breeze, and ties loosened and hanging askew. Not a very professional image, even if you remove the hat. Most crews, though, seem to present a professional image, are aware the public notices them and behave accordingly.

All other arguments considered, why not this:

Let's ditch the 19th Century livery and come up with a uniform appropriate for the 21st Century. We're going to be here a few years, after all! (Unless wearing a shirt and tie on the ramp @ KLAS in August appeals to you, of course!)
C

 

[nimtz]

What do you want to bet that the Clipper Captains garnered a hell of a lot of respect back then in their full uniform, than you do now?
Good post above, Rez.

The respect given clipper captains back then is NOT COMING BACK. Sorry to break the bad news, but back then less then 15% of the population flew on a commercial airliner. Flying was either a once in a life event or the domain of the wealthy. Today with the influx of 'peanut fares' it is more like 70%. Wearing a hat will not mean anything when it comes to the recapturing the respect this profession once had.

The bottom line is people want cheap seats long before they want some pilot 'dude' who looks like that 'dude' in Catch Me If You Can. You guys want to get an ulcer over this issue rather then the downfall of pensions and work rules at the Major level go right ahead. I can guarentee you that the sharpest dressed, hat wearing US Air Captain could really give a sh!t how much respect you think he deserves in his uniform. Heck he can even be a Freedom Air FO that looks like Brad Pitt and it won't matter.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

The uniform doesn't make one **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** bit of difference whether somebody flies on your airline or not. Put the Southwest pilots in shorts and t-shirts and they'll still be selling the same amount of tickets guaranteed. The flying public could give two sh!ts what you're paid or how you're dressed. It's sad but true. They want a cheap ticket period.

thats 100% true. I bet the "hat fans" tend to be the old guys who actually remember when the public had respect for pilots and going flying was a big trip, a big deal....let it folks, Orville and Wilbur are dead.

now it is a frucking $69 SWA Nightmare and airline pilots dress like slobs, from the stained, outdated, high water uniforms to the baseball hats and Dr Maartens for shoes. Throw in the ipod, the backpack, the big bag of Taco Bell - its a complete package.

NICE!