No MDA pilots take Republic deal..

[PCL_128]

What steps did you take, EXACTLY, to ensure their deserved positions??

I was a probationary FO at the time. I didn't serve in any union position until at least several months after all the NWA pilots had already come over. That's not really the point though. The point is that you're defending your companies actions, and I oppose the actions that my company (mainly the CP) took. I'm not asking you to lead a campaign to fix this, I'm just saying that pilots need to stick together. Instead of telling the MDA pilots that they're lucky they're even getting this, you should be supporting them in their stand. You don't have to take any steps at all to, as you put it, help them "ensure their deserved positions." All you have to do is stop defending this offer. Why do you feel the need to say that this is better than your company had to give them? Why do you feel the need to defend management's crap? You are labor, not management. Let management worry about their deals and you can worry about helping your fellow pilots at MDA that are once again getting screwed.

You are a huge tool.

The feeling is mutual, I assure you.

 

[Crzipilot]

Another great topic as to why the industry is why it is. People don't see the big picture. Unfortunately Mgmnt. types do. *itch all you want about the payscales, QOL etc.....but as long as someone is willing to show up. In this case...the CHQ/REP pilots with the carrot of fast upgrade and shiny new jets, the rates will stay down. I'm sure, as I've talked to a few, the thought of being on the street sucks for alot of these MDA folks, and no they don't all have a better place to go. They are taking a stand and saying enough is enough. Now if ALPA would take a cue on this, and encompassing everything that is happening, pensions, whipsawing, lowest bidder, etc etc and pull a page out of their old play book SOS??? anyone? anyone?........that would be fortitude, AND cry all you want, well your a pilot blah blah, you are the union....yes I am...and I'll do as they say, and I offer my opions to them, but UNTIL the TOP of the union says do this, then I have no direction. The MDA folks are possibly doing something which could turn a new chapter in a lot of things, then again, it may not, we have to see how it plays out. In the mean time I think every pilot should support them, THEY are the only ones so far that have put any type of line in the sand as of recently.

 

[vclean]

PCL_128,

Unless you are completely out of it, you must realize by now you have lost all credibility on this board. You made the PFT mistake, and now feel that you can rationalize your actions by dancing on the ALPA/MDA/U/CHQ soapbox. You continue to dig yourself into a hole.

If you feel the need to post something useful, create a new username. We are more likely to believe someone posting their first message, then listening to you.

 

[PCL_128]

Unless you are completely out of it, you must realize by now you have lost all credibility on this board.

vclean,

You seem to be under the impression that I actually care what you think of my credibility. You are, once again, wrong.

 

[vclean]

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[PCL_128]

Ignorance is bliss.

You would know.

 

[SOVT]

If I could step in here for a second.

I have seen a lot of posts speculating on what the MDA pilots want, don't want, perceived opinions about their feelings towards CHQ pilots.... in this thread. What this thread is short of however, is input from MDA pilots.

As a MDA pilot, one who will not be going to Republic because of a job offer elsewhere I'll throw my two cents in. The MDA pilots want to have their company (USAirways) meet the contractual obligations that are set forth in the AAA collective barganing agreement. Thats the long and short of it. The MDA group's interpretation may be different than managements but that will be settled by lawyers not line pilots. We are doing something that seems to be out of favor with most of todays pilot groups, fighting for what we believe to be right. In fact we are doing what is unheard of today, putting our jobs on the line to enforce our contract (I know I am leaving but that only occured a couple of days ago). Trust me, when most pilot groups are out there fighting for scraps like a bunch of junkyard dogs, it has shocked our management (and ALPA) to find a group so unified that they have offered a Republic position to 300 pilots and cannot find more than a couple of takers. This despite offering Captain and Check Airmen positions to F/O's who wouldn't see those seats for years.

On top of this, in a matter of days a group of pilots working at substandard wages put together enough cash to hire one of the best labor lawyers in the country to persue this case.


Believe what you may, but, take a close look at your own future. The regional airline industry is replacing what used to be entry level mainline flying - at half the pay, or less. That transfer of flying is going to accelerate with the resulting loss of mainline positions. Unless the other regional pilot groups start acting like MDA's your career expectations are going to be nill.

Good luck

 

[AirBill]

[/i]Instead of telling the MDA pilots that they're lucky they're even getting this, you should be supporting them in their stand. You don't have to take any steps at all to, as you put it, help them "ensure their deserved positions." ... Why do you feel the need to defend management's crap? You are labor, not management. Let management worry about their deals and you can worry about helping your fellow pilots at MDA that are once again getting screwed.

The problem is, you are not here. Our management does what it wants, irrespective of our input. And while I realize that is not your point, no one here is defending our management. No one. You do not know the situation, you have not experienced any of the negotiations, and you do not have a dog in this fight.

Thing is, we'd like to work with MAA pilots, but they quite apparently don't want to work with us. They are the ones who shoved this J4J thing down our throats, not us. Now that it limits what they are able to do here, they don't want it. What gives?

I'm not sure what your definition of "helping our your fellow pilots" would be, but I'm quite certain it wouldn't include some shady provision for "super seniority." U is selling some airplanes, and RAH is buying them, period. Our management would love to staff the lot with all new hires, but thankfully our scope prevents that. There is nothing, repeat, NOTHING in our contract, other than J4J, that would allow anyone other than pilots on our seniority list to fly those airplanes.

 

[SOVT]

>The problem is, you are not here. Our management does what it wants, irrespective of our input. And while I realize that is not your point, no one here is defending our management. No one. You do not know the situation, you have not experienced any of the negotiations, and you do not have a dog in this fight.<

I don't know you and you don't know me. But, I am an "old guy" and have heard your argument many a time. It's the same old story, guys who don't have the courage to fight for what is right make excuses. Your management couldn't do " what it wants" if your group was unified and willing to walk off the job. But no, no one wants to got that far. Instead, they live in servitude ever hopeful that the (rapidly dissappearing) mainline job will come along. it's your choice, empower management or not.

>Thing is, we'd like to work with MAA pilots, but they quite apparently don't want to work with us. They are the ones who shoved this J4J thing down our throats, not us. Now that it limits what they are able to do here, they don't want it. What gives?<

I would say tagging the MDA group to the bottom of your list is not what I would define as a working relationship. No one shoved J4J down your throats. You had a choice, accept a few AAA pilots and fly jets, or not. Your group chose to fly jets, replace mainline flying and enjoy career opportunities that you would not have had otherwise.

>I'm not sure what your definition of "helping our your fellow pilots" would be, but I'm quite certain it wouldn't include some shady provision for "super seniority." U is selling some airplanes, and RAH is buying them, period. Our management would love to staff the lot with all new hires, but thankfully our scope prevents that. There is nothing, repeat, NOTHING in our contract, other than J4J, that would allow anyone other than pilots on our seniority list to fly those airplanes.<

Again your choice, if the lawyers agree that this is a change of control then the decision is yours. If less that 300 pilots over here can change the course of this transaction so can you. Refuse to fly the 170, in fact get 99% of your group to refuse to fly anything if this transaction moves forward. Fight for what you believe is right, put your job on the line as these folks have. I doubt if you have the stomach for it, but heck I could be wrong.

If you don't think the MDA pilots ought to enforce our contractual rights why throw this out "but thankfully our scope prevents that". Why should your scope langauge trump our "change of control" langauge.

It sounds like youre the one looking for an unearned windfall.

 

[AirBill]

I would say tagging the MDA group to the bottom of your list is not what I would define as a working relationship. No one shoved J4J down your throats. You had a choice, accept a few AAA pilots and fly jets, or not. Your group chose to fly jets, replace mainline flying and enjoy career opportunities that you would not have had otherwise.

Sorry, but I don't buy that. Your group walked in without any intention of negotiating. Your guys said, "This is how it's going to be, or else." You seriously expect us to respect that? Would you have? Be honest. Please address this "super seniority" thing, and why we should have been falling all over ourselves to accept it.

Also, we were only flying jets that you guys had no interest in flying, and only became interested in flying them when the feces hit the rotating orb. It would be a lot easier, and much more congenial, if you guys would treat us with professional courtesy, and not act like we're beneath you. But from what I understand, MDA ALPA doesn't even want the Allegheny-Mohawk provisions to apply here.

If you don't think the MDA pilots ought to enforce our contractual rights why throw this out "but thankfully our scope prevents that". Why should your scope langauge trump our "change of control" langauge.

Why should it not? You accuse us of not having the intestinal fortitude that you have when defending your contractual rights, yet you criticize us for defending our scope clause. What gives? The ironic thing is, if we hadn't fought for that scope, then this wouldn't even be an issue. You'd probably all go over to Republic, and we couldn't do a thing about it.

Please, also educate me on this whole "change of control" language. Assuming that the arbitrator does rule in your favor, and the purchase is a "change in control," why would you expect to get a AAA date of hire? It's not a US Airways buyout, it's a Mid-Atlantic purchase. Why not an MDA date of hire?

It sounds like youre the one looking for an unearned windfall.

Unearned windfall? You can't be serious. Let me ask you this. Say two years from now an arbitrator rules that the AWA-U merger will be strictly DOH, and you get a call saying you're now able to hold CA on an Airbus. Meanwhile, some AWA lifer who used to fly it would been displaced to FO. Is that fair? Or is that an unearned windfall?

Tell me that all 300 MDA pilots would turn that down.

 

[SAEaviator]

If the MDA guys want USAir doh at RP, then every pilot at RP should be eligible to flow into Airways. MDA doh would make more sense depending on what the arbitrator rules.

 

[NickASA]

Not premier, but pretty decent. And you don't have to pay for the FO slot.

Another CFI that knows everything.

 

[aewanabe]

Sorry, but you've been around to know better. We should "refuse to fly anything" until management makes you a better offer? Um, ever heard of the RLA? Since we have a legal contract in place AND a mechanism for y'all to come over and fly half the seats here, that would be illegal. Illegal labor actions result in termination.

The "courage" to fight for what's right? Great, y'all are taking a stand now. Who was taking a stand when your management and ALPA agreed to fly these mainline airplanes for American Eagle wages and benefits? And a quick refresher on J4J at Chautauqua: it only exists AT ALL because management was quickly working to form a non-union, alter ego airline with our OLD pay rates to fly more 50-seaters for U. So in effect, we sacrificed our potential pay rates (which have been beaten to death here) AND got iron-clad scope with our holding company so that you might come here instead of staffing yet another non-union alter-ego.

 

[low-key]

you guys kill me; "walk off the job" what do you think this is, register boy at the local mini mart? You cant just walk off the job and even if you tried (contract negotiations) no arbitrator in their right mind is ever going to release anyone to strike? Your all nuts.

 

[olympus593]

you guys kill me; "walk off the job" what do you think this is, register boy at the local mini mart? You cant just walk off the job and even if you tried (contract negotiations) no arbitrator in their right mind is ever going to release anyone to strike? Your all nuts.

What do you think the arbitrator is going to do force them to show up???
Another CHQ idiot!!!