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NO JS to anti-ALPA types

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Please tell me this career is'nt like this.....I am far from a snot nose 19 year old spikey haired dude.

I have paid lots of dues, banner towed, ferried aircraft, instructed, tailwheel endorsements, part 135 etc. Using the JS for political reasons is probably uncalled for but to each their own, as I am not and have not been in said persons shoes. Me I'd probably just preach and let said suspect ride. Anything fanatical is a little crazy. IE REALLY REALLY Anti Union guys or the REALLY REALLY pro union guys. Get a life. The proper mix is probably somewhere in between. Everything in moderation. That being said if I ever work for a airline I will NEVER cross the line period. Its just one of those givens going into this career that is understood, I would pick up trash before I crossed the line. As O Reilly says tell me where I'm wrong? (lol, no I'm not a demo or a republican per se, remember a little in moderation)
 
Rally said:
Please tell me this career is'nt like this.....I am far from a snot nose 19 year old spikey haired dude.

I have paid lots of dues, banner towed, ferried aircraft, instructed, tailwheel endorsements, part 135 etc. Using the JS for political reasons is probably uncalled for but to each their own, as I am not and have not been in said persons shoes. Me I'd probably just preach and let said suspect ride. Anything fanatical is a little crazy. IE REALLY REALLY Anti Union guys or the REALLY REALLY pro union guys. Get a life. The proper mix is probably somewhere in between. Everything in moderation. That being said if I ever work for a airline I will NEVER cross the line period. Its just one of those givens going into this career that is understood, I would pick up trash before I crossed the line. As O Reilly says tell me where I'm wrong? (lol, no I'm not a demo or a republican per se, remember a little in moderation)
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Finally someone who understands and can read between the lines! Well said and good attitude!!:beer: This bud's for you!!
 
ALPA need an overhaul, they need fresh blood in their hierarchy. They both need to do a better job representing people vs worrying about how much money they are going to make off of a pilot group.
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A better job representing...... maybe....

I'd live to do a better job representing pilots... problem is we can't get pilots to speak up....

See the thing is... you are negating a basic component in democracy....participation!

Maybe the questions should be.... what comes first...

Out of the box thinking or particaption....
 
PCL_128 said:
Ask them. They can certainly lie if they want to, but if they admit to voting NO, then no free ride. Pretty simple...but anyone who admits to voting NO shouldn't be given any respect or professional courtesy.
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It's the people like you who encourages a jumpseat war that could very well lose the jumpseat for everyone.

That seat belongs to the company. It's a privilege to use it, not a right. It doesn't belong to the Captain.

Your immaturity is stunning. Don't you think the Skywest and Colgan pilots will remember your childishness when the vote for ALPA comes up again?

You're not even a ALPA member anymore.
 
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So what happens when management gets tired of all these jumpseat complaints flying back and forth, and decides, in the interets of keeping the peace, that no one rides the jumpseat anymore, other than FAA inspectors and check airman? Where will you be then?

It seems to be lost on everybody that management has the authority, and the responsibility, to approve everyone who rides that jumpseat. It's not a contract item, it's an F.A.R. Sure, the captain can exclude anyone he wants in the interest of safety, but he cannot "approve" the jumpseat for anyone if the company is saying "No."

Think about it.
 
mckpickle said:
As it will not be offered on my a/c to the 87 original Freedom pilots, Go Jets pilots, or now skywest pilots. Sorry.
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I never thought I'd be happy that MAG replaced SKW as my only option to get home...
 
All:

I have spoken very passionately about the jumpseat before. When I see these posts on here about blanket denials and the other BS, it really makes me think the pilots who plowed the road before me would be rolling over in their graves reading the immature, pi$$ ant rants on threads like this.

The jumpseat is a professional courtesy you extend to another pilot who is providing for his/her family. You may not like the airline they fly for, their employment past, their contract, or the way they look or act. They may not like unions, they may like Hillary Clinton. The facts about their life, their political affiliation, their sexual idiosyncracies, whether they like dogs or cats, and all the rest is not relavent.

Be a professional. If you commute, treat every jumpseater like you want to be treated. If you don't, thank your lucky stars. Welcome them like an old college buddy and treat them like gold. I can promise you if you don't, it will eventually come back around.

A350

ALPA saved the jumpseat after 9/11....thanks for the nice laugh.
 
Airline Driver said:
You really don't read between the lines very well do you? Just because I do not like unions, does not mean I do not support unions. I am not anti union. I never said I am Anti union. I just said I do not like unions. Believe it or not there is a difference.

You may not like to eat fish, but it is good for you. We need Unions in our industry for our protection. I guess what I should have said is that I am for, or Pro, In house Unionization. Both Teamsters and ALPA need an overhaul, they need fresh blood in their hierarchy. They both need to do a better job representing people vs worrying about how much money they are going to make off of a pilot group.

If you look at the trend of the future or "OUT SIDE THE BOX" in other words look beyond the end of your nose, you will see that pilot groups are moving toward the end of third party representation and moving to in house unionization. Now Just to make my point clear, I never said get rid of Unions all together, I said Unionize in house, that means form your own independent company Pilot Union!!
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You need to go over to the "regional airline pilots union" thread to read why in-house unions don't work, especially for regional airlines. In-house unions are a mistake. Believe me, I'm a member of one.
 
hoover said:
It seems to be lost on everybody that management has the authority, and the responsibility, to approve everyone who rides that jumpseat. It's not a contract item, it's an F.A.R.
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You need to do some research. Many pilot contracts include language for access to the jumpseat and Captain's authority over it.
 
A350 said:
ALPA saved the jumpseat after 9/11....thanks for the nice laugh.
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Laugh it up, but them's the facts. Were it not for Captain Woerth and ALPA, you wouldn't have your jumpseat access today.
 
strega7 said:
And then that pissed jumpseater returns to the terminal and finds the first "airport official" he can and says, "something is wrong with that captian, he may be drunk or on something." When that person asks why you honestly tell them the captain was acting illogically (about the JS request) and only a drunk/high pilot MIGHT act like that. Then you walk away while all hell breaks loose. Be careful out there.
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You might wanna rethink that position, the legal ramifications are huge, lets start with if you pass that info to the police and it turns out to be untrue, depending on your intent could be construed as "false information to a peace officer", which in California is a misdemeanor. Followed by a whole basket of civil actions, only your attorney will be able to enlighten you, as to the ramifications. I am sure JA and the SKYW legal beagles will rush to your defense on this one though! You might be the one who wants to "be careful out there"! post your picture here, I wanna see your big red nose and bigger red floppy shoes!
PBR
P.S. your JS request will be sitting at the gate or in the Capt's hands. You will be very easy to find.
 
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ALPA and Woerth saved the jumpseat that day.....

The TSA questioned whether jumpseating was going to affect cockpit security. While I know Woerth objected to any plan that didn't include jumpseating, and I am positive he lobbied for the jumpseat, to say that he SAVED it is a little bit of an overreach. If the TSA didn't want to allow jumpseaters, there wouldn't be jumpseaters....period.

Now, if ALPA had gone to the mat for the jumpseat, like telling the members to not return to work post 9/11 because of the TSA's unwillingness to work with the pilots of this country and had it actually happened that way with a TSA reversal after the fact, then you could say with certainty that ALPA saved the jumpseat.

A350
 
A350, you can deny it all you want, but the facts are simple. The government fully intended to eliminate jumpseats. Period. Duane raised holy hell and fought like mad to make sure that it didn't happen. That's just reality.
 
A350 said:
ALPA and Woerth saved the jumpseat that day.....

The TSA questioned whether jumpseating was going to affect cockpit security. While I know Woerth objected to any plan that didn't include jumpseating, and I am positive he lobbied for the jumpseat, to say that he SAVED it is a little bit of an overreach. If the TSA didn't want to allow jumpseaters, there wouldn't be jumpseaters....period.

Now, if ALPA had gone to the mat for the jumpseat, like telling the members to not return to work post 9/11 because of the TSA's unwillingness to work with the pilots of this country and had it actually happened that way with a TSA reversal after the fact, then you could say with certainty that ALPA saved the jumpseat.

A350
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Tell us about the all induatry conference call hours oafter 9/11. Who particapted? I can assure the SKYW pilots weren't represented...

Jumpseat war? Management getting tired of the complaining? Management might shut it down? Yeah right..... and those with representation will be much more effective in keeping..getting it back...
 
PCL_128 said:
You need to do some research. Many pilot contracts include language for access to the jumpseat and Captain's authority over it.
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You got me there. We all know that once it's in the contract, you can take it to the bank. Whatever...
 
hoover said:
You got me there. We all know that once it's in the contract, you can take it to the bank. Whatever...
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I've used the grievance process and made some bank. Days off too....

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
Rez O. Lewshun said:
I've used the grievance process and made some bank. Days off too....

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Same here. Used it to get dollars, days off, and a ridiculous disciplinary letter removed. The greivance process works.
 
I can see the idea of somebody being denied the jumpseat because he didn't vote ALPO and then claiming the Captain could be intoxicated becoming a reality, you know it will happen.

It wont take much of that to kill it for everybody.
Another ALPO victory!
 
CFIT said:
I can see the idea of somebody being denied the jumpseat because he didn't vote ALPO and then claiming the Captain could be intoxicated becoming a reality, you know it will happen.

It wont take much of that to kill it for everybody.
Another ALPO victory!
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CFIT!

I am still waiting for you to answer the "tough" questions...

In the meantime... since you don't have to pay that dreaded, quality of life draining, 2% dues you don't hae to jumpseat... just use the 2% for ID90's!

Not voting in ALPA was like getting a 2% raise!

The jumpseat conference is usually in the Spring... are the SKYW pilots going to send a rep? (even that gives me a chuckle...) Then again why should you.... you'll just freeload off the results of the conference...



Does the SKYW pilots have agreements with Canadian or other foreign carriers...?
 
"Jumpseat" wars accomplish nothing except making regionals look like losers. Also, they are usually started by people who don't commute.
 
PCL_128 said:
You need to go over to the "regional airline pilots union" thread to read why in-house unions don't work, especially for regional airlines. In-house unions are a mistake. Believe me, I'm a member of one.
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Well Sir you have your opinion and I have mine. Fact of the matter is this, getting back to the original scope of this thread, the jump seat is not a carrot to use as a power trip that some Idiots use to get their rocks off. It should not matter what race, religion, Opinion, or background the person is coming from.

Anybody that does deny a fellow pilot a ride to work or a ride home to their family, is nothing but a No good worthless bottom feeding looser who needs their A$$ lit of fire. :0 Professional courtesy has gone out the window and needs an overhaul. We have too many snot nosed ego maniacs in this business. People need to grow up and get over it, move on and play the game right or simply get out!!!!!!!

Ahhhhhhhhhhh!! Now I feel better!!:D
 
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Rez O. Lewshun said:
CFIT!

I am still waiting for you to answer the "tough" questions...

In the meantime... since you don't have to pay that dreaded, quality of life draining, 2% dues you don't hae to jumpseat... just use the 2% for ID90's!

Not voting in ALPA was like getting a 2% raise!

The jumpseat conference is usually in the Spring... are the SKYW pilots going to send a rep? (even that gives me a chuckle...) Then again why should you.... you'll just freeload off the results of the conference...



Does the SKYW pilots have agreements with Canadian or other foreign carriers...?
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I suppose ALPA is the answer to all your tough questions, right? That doesn't appear to be the mood on the major board is it?

And yes with the money I've saved so far this year, I do buy full fare tickets for my family and myself, screw ID90's.

I havn't jumpseated in years so I think that should be handled by those that do. My point was that if the ALPA Klan members that use it for discriminatory reasons and someone gets pissed and has the plane return to the gate for a suspected alcohol test it could cause enough trouble to have the privilege yanked for everybody.

But I suppose that's OK as it supports your cause, right?
 
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Anyone else who has been on FI for any amount of time knows Pookie is just yanking your chain. Ahaha 14 pages because Pookie was bored.

Idiots.
 
Rez O. Lewshun said:
I think we did a good job getting the word out. The SKYW pilots were either ignorant or selfish...



They can hang together or seperately. A choice they made no doubt....the SKYW pilots just gave us the symbolic middle finger... at least that is the message we received...
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Rez,

You quoted too many different things for me to quote and respond to them without it sounding confused.

You can have whatever opinion you like about this issue, however lumping ALL SkyWest pilots together as dumb, not respecting the industry, etc is just plain ignorant. Did you see that 1/3 of the group voted yes? Your response was basically "hang in the noose together." Cool. Well, unfortunately some decided not to vote or voted no. The rest of us tried our best to not let that happen. But crucifying those people now and the entire pilot group is not the answer. The vote is over and it's time to move on...

Do we still live in a democracy? It's things like this that make me wonder if we're living in a socialist state...

PCL,

You say that in-house unions are a failure. Now let's say there was a vote at Citrus where your only choice was in-house (which isn't your preference) or nothing (which is even less your preference). What would you do? Wait for the right situation or bring what you believed a flawed situation into your company.

All I'm preaching is levity everyone. I voted one way, and some others didn't. It's over. Let's move on. Maybe a better way is to use your jumpseats as a way to educate people on union benefits than a "Jimmy Hoffa" punishment which people will remember much longer and put a much more sour taste about unions in their mouth.

My two cents.

C27
 
NO SKYW pilot wants to acknowledge the efforts by ALPA that they benefit from! THERE is no reply from the SKYW management lovers to even try and justify.

As far as the 1/3.... you tried and that is respected... If one the 66% Klub lies and says "Yeah I voted for ALPA, can I ride the jumpseat..." a few follow up questions will reveal the truth...

Tired of the feeeleaders... too much work to be done.... the freeloaders make it harder...

Any SKYW pilots going to be at the Spring 08 jumpseat conference?
 

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