NO JS to anti-ALPA types

[A350]

PCL:

The problem you have is with Captains Authority. The reason Captains authority has been eroded over time is because of malcontents who use the very thing you hold dear to further their own agendas or further some PERSONAL ideal. I have watched with some disdain over the past 20 years how we have lost ground in this regard...and it is because of tools like pookie and others who use hard fought gains as a political weapon or to further their own agenda. It doesn't work....and it furthers the notion that we cannot police ourselves so the "right" is taken away.

Flame all you want, but Captains Authority is and always has been the Captains right to get what he wants to further the SAFETY of the operation. Not whether some guy who agrees with him on a religious, philosophical, union, or political basis gets the professional courtesy of a ride. There are only two sides to a jumpseat war, and both sides LOSE. The guy who didn't get home will hate ALPA till the day he dies. The guy who denied him the ride will get his someday and that is how the business works.

Pookie, you didn't uphold the profession that day. It may look like it to the goons who support your actions, but all you did was weaken the support of the union.

Never ask a question that you don't want to hear the answer to.

A350

 

[PCL_128]

Actually it belongs to the airline and ops manuals put limitations on its use. The captain has the authority to deny it to some people, and cannot put someone in it that the ops manual prohibits.

Some people? Don't know where you got that idea. The Captain has the authority to deny anyone he wants for any reason. The only exceptions are Feds are secret service on official business, and he still has the right to deny them in the interest of safety.

The jumpseat belongs to the Captain. Period. End of story.

 

[FishandFly]

Some people? Don't know where you got that idea. The Captain has the authority to deny anyone he wants for any reason. The only exceptions are Feds are secret service on official business, and he still has the right to deny them in the interest of safety.

The jumpseat belongs to the Captain. Period. End of story.

That is incorrect. Any captain that tries to refuse a fed, SS, etc. will be removed from the flight. The extra stripe doesn't give some magical power.

 

[Whiskerbizkit]

That is incorrect. Any captain that tries to refuse a fed, SS, etc. will be removed from the flight. The extra stripe doesn't give some magical power.

Not true, I know someone that denied a FED.

 

[Tarzan]

Not true, I know someone that denied a FED.

Balls of steel there. Where do I get my upgrade from balls of stone?

 

[vectorvictor]

Some people? Don't know where you got that idea. The Captain has the authority to deny anyone he wants for any reason. The only exceptions are Feds are secret service on official business, and he still has the right to deny them in the interest of safety.

The jumpseat belongs to the Captain. Period. End of story.

Yes...but no. The seat belongs to the airline (or more likely the financing company that holds the note on the plane).

The right to refuse an elligible jumpseat rider is the PIC's discretion. Your time would have been better spent educating the young prick rather than sending him back to the terminal. Besides freedom of expression (1st ammendment) entitles the prick to his or her own opinion. Maybe I'll just deny all the white catholic Irish folk from my jumpseat on pure principle. The denial of a jumpseater allows the Captain the ability to restrict access to his or her flight deck. Its not a political tool or license to discriminate without just cause.

 

[PCL_128]

That is incorrect. Any captain that tries to refuse a fed, SS, etc. will be removed from the flight. The extra stripe doesn't give some magical power.

Where do you guys come up with this crap? A Fed isn't allowed to interfere with operations of a 121 or 135 airline. He is allowed to inspect to the degree that the operation isn't interfered with, and that includes not being allowed to cause delays. If the Captain decides to deny the Fed, then the flight will still go as scheduled without the Fed, and the Captain will merely have to answer for it later. If he can't provide a reason that includes safety of flight, then there will be consequences, but as long as the Captain is able to display his certificate and his medical to the Fed, then the Fed has no right to remove him from the flight.

 

[PCL_128]

Yes...but no. The seat belongs to the airline (or more likely the financing company that holds the note on the plane).

As soon as the Captain signs for that airplane, then the jumpseat is his to do with as he pleases. The airline has zero right to force the Captain to allow anyone on the jumpseat, and the FAA has backed ALPA on that interpretation.

 

[PCL_128]

The problem you have is with Captains Authority. The reason Captains authority has been eroded over time is because of malcontents who use the very thing you hold dear to further their own agendas or further some PERSONAL ideal.

No, the reason that Captains' authority has declined over the years is because too many Captain allow it. I used to get emails from our Captains constantly complaining to me that the airline didn't schedule them enough time for a single meal break in a 15 hour duty day. My response was always simple: "you're the Captain. Delay the flight until you've had enough time for you and your crew to eat." Only about 10% of them had the balls to do it. The rest willfully gave up their Captain's authority simply because they didn't want to rock the boat. The guys that had the balls to act like a frickin' Captain never got in any trouble, because the regs still provide for Captain's authority whether the airlines like it or not.

Captain's authority has never been impacted by anything related to guy "pushing a political agenda," and certainly nothing related to abusing the control of the jumpseat. Captain's authority has been compromised because we don't have enough "old-school" guys in the left seat nowadays that have any balls.

 

[Occam's Razor]

That is incorrect. Any captain that tries to refuse a fed, SS, etc. will be removed from the flight. The extra stripe doesn't give some magical power.

Wrong!

I threw an Air Carrier Inspector (110A) of my jumpseat in FAR in 2002.

Told him he wasn't going; called my Chief Pilot; flew the jet to MSP...and beyond, uninterrupted, for the remainder of my trip.

No big deal.

Rules is rules.

Never had a Secret Service guy ride the jumpseat, but I can toss them off too, regardless of who is on the flight.

Know the rules, my son.

 

[BUDDHA145]

In my own words, I respect any pilot commuting home to his/her family or work to support them, who you are, what you thing and what you have done is your problem and you have to live with it (for the record SCABS are the last in my list for jump seat).
In all fairness I am a union member but I think that they to over pay for what we get!!!

Personaly POOKE you are a dush!!!

 

[mamba20]

Your a real hero.

 

[aussiefly]

anyone suspicious that it took 2or 3 pages before Pookie brought up the fact that the JS'er had said "fcuk ALPA" ?

This has just got to be pure flamebait

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I just can't believe that you guys (specially you PCL) are defending the actions of this tool, this guy is just a brat on an ego trip that is getting validation from your support.

Captains Authority is and always has been the Captains right to get what he wants to further the SAFETY of the operation. Not whether some guy who agrees with him on a religious, philosophical, union, or political basis gets the professional courtesy of a ride.

Spot on

 

[BE90flyer]

"As soon as the Captain signs for that airplane, then the jumpseat is his to do with as he pleases"

Do you think thats the line they feed PCL when he bought his first job and took the opportunity away from someone who should have been paid to sit in his seat.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

You know guys, Captains authority aside , this new hires use of the F word demonstrates the lack of profesionalism WE would like to see on the flight deck. Joe merchant- how sucsessful would I be if I walked up to your flight deck and asked "ssup dudes- howbout a fu@cing ride?" I know you said if you won't like the answer- don't ask the question. But if I asked you what you thought about the cowboys (Dallas), and you said F-them - you just lost the "high ground" and I'll treat you like pookie did the young guy. Does that make sense dude? This is the third example someone has given you.

 

[A350]

PCL:

There you go again...you are mixing apples and oranges. Taking a meal break during a 15 hour duty day is a safety of flight issue....period.

Using the jumpseat as a political weapon or as some other form of retribution is childish, unprofessional, and the bane of the union. It has nothing to do with safety or Captains authority.

Know this....I AM an old school guy. And I will set the brake until I am satisfied that I can safely do my duties and complete the flight at hand. However, leaving a fellow aviator at the gate who is trying to get home or to work because I don't like his uniform, his past, who he works for now, his political affiliation, who he voted for President, whether he is a union lover or hater......NEVER enters into the equation.

I have had good jumpseaters and bad ones. Even the bad ones get a ride again. They get a smile, a handshake, and the best seat I can offer. Hopefully they "get" what I am trying to accomplish and pay it forward.

Tools who use jumpseats to make a point, and those who defend them, should be ashamed of themselves. The union that claims them as members should be ashamed also.

A350

 

[EMB170Pilot]

blah blah blah blah blah blah

 

[7dustfan]

U must feel real powerful denying a jumpseat to a kid with his own opinion that is not in line with yours. U frickin' tool-bag!!!......Grow a pair and STFU! Karma comes around.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

You may have inconvenienced that FO just enough that he had to hop the next flight home, but you probably guaranteed that he will never ever vote in favor of union representation in his life. Way to go, smart guy; you probably just screwed ALPA more than you know.

I remember when I was 19, I was driving trucks at a gravel company. They had a union vote coming up, and some of the pro-union guys began using intimidation tactics; they were putting nails in anti-union guy's car tires; trying to scare people in to voting for the union. All they did was create hatred toward the union drive.
The union vote failed miserably and they have never had one since...That was 12 years ago. It was a great triumph for management.

 

[Nindiri]

I think next time I have a line check scheduled, I'm just going to deny the jumpseat to the checkairman.

 

[FoxyWhiskey]

Why?????


People should not ask the opinion of others if they are going to be so shallow and Jr. High about the answer. Ask a "controversial" question, be prepared to get an opinion which you directly asked for.

Do you start every jumpseat request off with questions on politics, religion? What's your opinion of the Tijuana Donkey Show? WTF?

When did it become a crime to disagree with you, anyway?

Yes, it can make for interesting conversation and debate, but BE ABLE TO HANDLE IT. Don't have a fit and throw the jumpseater off just because you can.

As a captain, you should be above the pettiness of your own ego and philosophies. Set the example. You didn't get the point across to the FO, you are just doing your part to stir the pot.

This is the stuff that gets back to people. People talk and people get pissed. It always comes down the pipeline. You're doing more harm to your own pilots than anything, pretty sad.

If anything, karma's a b*tch. Do right by others, and quit being such a turd.
-FW

 

[BE90flyer]

If someone requesting the jump seat starts using foul language then it could be appropriate to deny him a ride.

That is an important fact to add when telling a story of why you kicked a person off your plane. If you notice, he didn’t mention the foul language in his first post but added it later when he was being criticized for being an assss.

I think pookie is two faced liar. What does everyone else think?

 

[aussiefly]

BE90 i think your spot on mate...if someone had used the F-Bomb when requesting the jump seat that would be the thrust of the original post. it wasnt...only appeared much later...almost as an afterthought.

Clearly the biggest pile of dogcrap i've seen posted in a while.

Forget the conversation over the JS...start to realize that pookie is a bs artist and has just wound us all up.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Wow.... let forget the original intent and go with the hypothetical of this discussion: which shows where this profession has gone....

We excuse foul language and disrespect...futher more...we don't have the balls to be captains of our own ships...

Management loves you guys....

 

[PCL_128]

PCL:

There you go again...you are mixing apples and oranges. Taking a meal break during a 15 hour duty day is a safety of flight issue....period.

Using the jumpseat as a political weapon or as some other form of retribution is childish, unprofessional, and the bane of the union. It has nothing to do with safety or Captains authority.

A350, having dealt with these situations before, I can tell you exactly what the Captain will say if confronted about it: "The presence of this pilot on my jumpseat would be distracting to me and affect the level of safety of the flight. This is a safety issue."

Is it complete BS? Possibly. Probably. But if we start to pick and choose when we defend Captain's authority based on our own imperfect judgment, then we've started down a slippery slope. The jumpseat belongs to the Captain. Period. I will always defend his right to deny anyone, anytime, no matter how I actually feel about his reasoning, just as I'll defend a Captain for refusing an airplane even if I personally feel that the plane is perfectly safe. I don't ever question another Captain's judgment or authority after the fact.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Wrong!

I threw an Air Carrier Inspector (110A) of my jumpseat in FAR in 2002.

Told him he wasn't going; called my Chief Pilot; flew the jet to MSP...and beyond, uninterrupted, for the remainder of my trip.

No big deal.

Rules is rules.

Never had a Secret Service guy ride the jumpseat, but I can toss them off too, regardless of who is on the flight.

Know the rules, my son.

This sounds like a great story. Details?

 

[:-)]

I don't have time to read the entire thread, but here's my two peso's. I put the wannabe scab in the physical jumpseat (no cushy seat in first class) and use the time to try and convert him. Denying him/her just makes him/her into more of a union hater.

I did manage to give a GeauxJET Capt the cold shoulder the other day in the terminal. I really intended to say hi until I got close enough to read his ID, then I just couldn't find anything to say. It didn't make me feel good to ignore the dude, but I just couldn't think of anything to say other than "thanks for nothing" so I just walked away.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I did manage to give a GeauxJET Capt the cold shoulder the other day in the terminal. I really intended to say hi until I got close enough to read his ID, then I just couldn't find anything to say. It didn't make me feel good to ignore the dude, but I just couldn't think of anything to say other than "thanks for nothing" so I just walked away.

I ran into a GoJet crew waiting for the hotel van one morning last month in Portland Maine. I saw UAL CREW tags on their bags and thought they were Mesa. When I asked the captain who they worked for, he got very defensive and snapped "GOJETS, who do YOU work for"? I told him ASA and then it was complete silence the rest of the ride. These guys must get crapped on a lot to be that defensive over an honest question.

 

[Morning Wood]

If someone requesting the jump seat starts using foul language then it could be appropriate to deny him a ride.

That is an important fact to add when telling a story of why you kicked a person off your plane. If you notice, he didn’t mention the foul language in his first post but added it later when he was being criticized for being an assss.

I think pookie is two faced liar. What does everyone else think?

I said it earlier and I'll say it again, I don't believe for a second that this actually happened. It was an attempt to get all the ALPA folks on here to say "You go girlfiriend".