No growth at SW until 2016 now

[slaquer5]

Well, here's some leverage for you-- Southwest has several hundred 737-Max's on order. Our CBA doesn't allow anyone to fly them yet; the CBA would have to be opened and terms agreed upon. The verbiage says that any other plane other than the 737-300, -500, -700, or -800 requires a reopener. Those planes are supposed to hit our pavement in early 2017, so they'll want agreements sometime in 2016. According to GK, they are the future of Southwest.

I guess we'll see what happens.

Bubba

All the company has to do is say the max is a modified 700 , SWA reads the contract as all is Kosher. The only thing SWAPA can do is grieve it . SWA has interpreted many thing different than SWAPA. Usually the company wins in the interpretation .

 

[afhercdriver]

Is the Max going to be a different type rating?

Jim

 

[scoreboardII]

If it takes any additional training, it's a new airframe. Sorry.

 

[humveedriver]

Is the Max going to be a different type rating?

Jim

I doubt it in the pure definition of the type. If you flew a DC-9, MD-80, MD-90 or 717 your type read "DC-9". I imagine your type will not say "max" on your license. The question is will the FAA allow SWA pilots to fly NGs and MAX's with differences training. And I suspect the answer is already yes. I'm sure the cheaper -200 type rating at higher power will still be valid, but not very useful.

 

[scoreboardII]

the -700, the -800, required reopeners. The MAX is a modified 737, and in the contract sense, is NOT a 700 or 800, so , reopener for rates is required.

 

[humveedriver]

the -700, the -800, required reopeners. The MAX is a modified 737, and in the contract sense, is NOT a 700 or 800, so , reopener for rates is required.

Thanks. I was wondering about that. Although I find it strange as it is part of a family of aircraft. We actually had negotiated rates for larger aircraft or different aircraft (Airbus for example) at the Tran and was surprised that my SWAPA contract didn't have pay rates for other planes.

 

[PropPiedmont]

There will only ever be one payrate at SWA.

 

[HowardBorden]

the -700, the -800, required reopeners. The MAX is a modified 737, and in the contract sense, is NOT a 700 or 800, so , reopener for rates is required.

The contract says:

M. RE-OPENER
In the event that the Company, during the duration of this Agreement, should: (1) acquire for its use any type of aircraft other than the B717, B737-300, B737-500, B737-700, and the B737-800

According to Boeing it is not a B737-700 or B737-800, but a 737 MAX.

"Southwest is a special Boeing customer and has been a true partner in the evolution of the 737," said Boeing Commercial Airplanes President and CEO Jim Albaugh. "Throughout our 40-year relationship, our two companies have collaborated to launch the 737-300, 737-500 and the Next-Generation 737-700 ? affirming the 737 as the world's preferred single-aisle airplane. As launch customer for the 737 MAX, Southwest, Boeing and the 737 continue that legacy."

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=20295&item=2072

My guess is it will be addressed in this section 6 which will hopefully be done before the 2017 debut of the MAX.

 

[PCL_128]

Does it simply require a re-opener, or does it actually prohibit operation of the new type until agreement is reached?

 

[scoreboardII]

contract reopener only, I think.

 

[HowardBorden]

Does it simply require a re-opener, or does it actually prohibit operation of the new type until agreement is reached?

The way it is worded I believe it to be a re-opener only, nothing that prohibits the operation until negotiations are completed.

"this Agreement will be reopened for the sole purpose of negotiating wages, rates of pay, relocation expenses, bidding, and hours or conditions of employment particularly applicable to the specific situation."

 

[PCL_128]

In that case, it gives you no leverage, unfortunately. Your contract is already opened. It's a meaningless provision at this point.

 

[Tripower455]

In that case, it gives you no leverage, unfortunately. Your contract is already opened. It's a meaningless provision at this point.

Not that it would matter anyway, as we love shiny jets!

 

[SWA Bubba]

Deleted

 

[PCL_128]

Not that it would matter anyway, as we love shiny jets!

Well, look at the bright side. You've probably got 20% of the pilot group now that will vote no on just about everything just out of spite. Come up with the other 30.01% and you're golden.

 

[Tripower455]

Well, look at the bright side. You've probably got 20% of the pilot group now that will vote no on just about everything just out of spite. Come up with the other 30.01% and you're golden.

I hope so, but, surprisingly, more than half of the FAT guys I've flown with so far have drank the Kool Aid. Hopefully we'll get some more no voters when the rest come over!

 

[PCL_128]

I hope so, but, surprisingly, more than half of the FAT guys I've flown with so far have drank the Kool Aid. Hopefully we'll get some more no voters when the rest come over!

The first group were the guys who were eager to go. You know, the "high five" crowd that redflyer always mentions and wants to pretend was our entire pilot group. These were the guys who lived in a SWA domicile or who had their finances in such horrible shambles that they desperately needed the money. After those guys, though, things change significantly. As Ty pointed out either in this thread or another, they're displacing people across the partition now. Most of the guys left to transition are not going willingly. I don't think the kool aid is going to take so easily.

 

[madjack]

I don't see what taking a negative attitude to a new work place gains anyone? And less Koolaid drinkers the better, especially during section 6...

 

[madjack]

Interesting discussion on SWAPA forum regarding Mad Dog's retire

 

[freightdogfred]

Interesting discussion on SWAPA forum regarding Mad Dog's retire

Do tell

Some of us are lowly lotto-winners with no access