No comment on ASA PBS LOA yet?

[aircombat]

ALPA has the ability to accept and reject bid run solutions. No one else has that. No one. If management starts to exploit "loopholes" in the agreement all ALPA has to do is reject the bid runs. It really is that simple.

They can do that 3 times in a 6 month period. Each time a coin toss will determine which sides solution will be used. So maybe they could reject it about 50% of 3 times in a 6 month period. If they dispute more it will go to arbitration. What reason would they give the arbitrator for not taking the companies lines? There is no guidance on this, and who is to say that one solution is better than another. Like you guys keep pointing out what one person likes isn’t always what another person wants.

Remember it’s the computer that is going to make lines for just about everyone. Only a little wiggle room for certain people that probably left a vague bid or is so junior they only get the leftovers.

 

[Speedtape]

How about them Trojans Speedtape? Who is your team, the Atlanta Falcons?
Now, now, I sense some hostility! Are you a Falcon hater?

All 136 is NOT true. As there would be a mix of OO pilots that would be in ATL as well (assuming OneList).
So OneList wouldn't prevent furloughs? And, you are ok with furloughs as long as Skywest shares in the misery? Hmmm Skywest Pilots, are you listening?

United is already seeing an increase in Summer '10 bookings. Not arguing they are in trouble, but I believe they'll be fine longterm. No, I've not seen the language on the DCI Contract, however, that being said, it was announced the "80%" rule was now changed from ASA to SkyWest Inc. I believe SH announced it awhile back.
If SH said it, it must be true! What happened to Electronic Flight Bags? If you put creedance in what he says, that explains alot!

Delta does have all control. However, Inc. can be very persuasive in controlling certain costs associated with who flies where. Inc. CONTROLS ASA.
Ok, I agree with some of that.

I'm not arguing ASA will be going away. Never have, Speedtape. It will be widdled down as we are the punching bag. As long as things get good, we'll get scraps. When things get bad, we get to be the punching bag (furlough while SkyWest operates in and out of ATL-- yeah yeah yeah, Delta controls that, right?).
Sorry, I don't buy into your observation and hate mongering! ASA furloughed because our block hours were greatly reduced! Less block hours mean the need for less pilots. Does that make any sense? It's real basic and even a Caveman can understand it!

I'm fine with commuting the rest of my Career. I can make a change anytime I feel like it. How would you know how I feel about commuting as you have never heard me complain about it? It also affords me the opportunity to see Family much more often than I would. As far as commuting with OneList, fine by me. I gain greater job security. Thank you very much.
I'm glad you are fine with commuting the rest of your career--your choice! I have heard you complain about commuting, as have others. OneList does not guarantee you job security--it's a fantasy!

Inc. can take us into Ch. 11 anytime they want to. They are extremely savvy and their turnaround of ASA is proof (Did Delta control that too? other than the sale?).
First, ASA is no where near bankruptcy and never will be! "They" is who and what "turnaround"? Please, cease and desist with the fear mongering! Just because you state it, does not make it so. Fear Mongering will not get you "OneList" so that you don't have to commute.

I don't argue against ALPA representation Speedtape. I am in favor of it in our present state. I'm not worried about losing representation in favor of OneList. I believe together the pilot groups can decide what is best, since we BOTH have a vested interest in Inc.'s success.
Most Skywest Pilots do not want OneList and for good reason. Most ASA pilots do not want OneList and for good reason. Your arguments are weak. Four airplanes were transferred in the heat of negotiations, and the pilots did not flinch! If it was a threat and it was so effective, why not more than 4? In that same period, airplanes were transferred to ASA from Comair! Did any ASA pilot complain about that and what did that mean?

How have I attacked ALPA chump? You beating your chest right now? Watch out for that oncoming traffic, and stay safe you hear?
Who is ALPA chump? I don't know him. I am not beating my chest. I understand the reality. If Inc. wants us merged, then we will be merged! However, I doubt that it will ever happen for a multitude of reasons--including legal, financial, and strategic. Not to mention, that Most of the Skywest Pilots are opposed to OneList, unless you are stapled! Is that what you want?

Trojan

How bout them Trojans? Where's Pete?

 

[Speedtape]

Speedtape, you consistently are trying to make it sound like people wanting an easier commute is the primary reasoning behind OneList.
Your reading comprehension skills are in question, which may explain your inconsistent and incongruent arguments. Your statement is false and totally absent of factual content.
Your reasoning if flawed and also you are a hypocrite because it’s you that has the ulterative motive by wanting to be bought back by Delta.
Are you are the authority on flawed reasoning? It is common concensus that you don't hold a consistent position and lack the ability to make arguments with strong foundation. Yes, I am a hypocrite, as are all men--it's just a matter to what degree! However, I have made progress in the 12 step program, as I have gotten past the denial stage. What about you? We all have ulterior motives--unless you are an amoeba! My ulterior motive is to maintain my job, protect my pay and benefits, contribute to the growth and success of my Company, and to aggressively attack stupidity in it's tracks--before the rest of us become contaminated!

You are like the orphan that wants to stay in the orphanage just for the chance that your real parents might come back to pick you up.
It is appalling that you would analogize and exploit the plight of orphans. Are you pious and sanctimonious--or just an insensitive sloth?
And to say that it’s less risky is just the furthest thing from the truth. The only way that it would be more risky is if we negotiated a staple.
"WE" want be negotiating anything!

It’s highly unlikely that we will operate as a separate company forever.
Are you listening to voices?

And the Tea Leaves say:
That leaves one of three possibilities. We could be sold (not likely), We could be dissolved (a full dissolve is unlikely), or we could be merged (most likely). Waiting around until Skywest is unionized and this goes down on their terms and giving up our leverage, is not a wise idea.

Reference Shuttle America/Rupublic merger. Not much is written about it. I guess people don’t like writing sad stories. Republic wanted a staple, and Shuttle wanted wanted date of hire, since Shuttle America had nothing to bargain with it went to arbitration. The end result was a partial staple for Shuttle America. More than half of the Shuttle pilots were upset with the results. I feel that it’s a little ironic that right before all of that Republic displaced all of Shuttle America from Pittsburg to…., you guessed it, Dulles.
Blah, blah, blah! Is this relevant and why?

If we had leverage (PBS) we could negotiate “in good faith”. If this goes to arbitration a similar outcome is likely.

The above makes no sense. We should always negotiate "in good faith"--with or without leverage. In regard to the above, do your homework and get the facts. Ba-Bye!

 

[Speedtape]

Die thread!!!

Die!

Die!

Die

OR, Practice Personal Censorship--don't click the link!

 

[buscap]

It's like porn!

I can't stop.

It is society's responsibility to keep the world free of my vices, leaving me blameless for my indiscretions. Natalie Portman should not smoke in movies and it's Snoop Dog's fault that I want to do drugs!!

I am considering a lawsuit against the FI Moderators for failing to stop this post. My lawyer says we can recover damages for my lost time.

 

[Tarzan]

It's like porn!

I can't stop.

It is society's responsibility to keep the world free of my vices, leaving me blameless for my indiscretions. Natalie Portman should not smoke in movies and it's Snoop Dog's fault that I want to do drugs!!

I am considering a lawsuit against the FI Moderators for failing to stop this post. My lawyer says we can recover damages for my lost time.

Best post of the thread!

 

[aircombat]

The above makes no sense. We should always negotiate "in good faith"--with or without leverage. In regard to the above, do your homework and get the facts. Ba-Bye!

It all makes sense and the Shuttle America/Republic merger is completely relevant. It is a historic example of what happened to one regional several years after being purchased by another. Where is your example of two airlines jointly sharing growth and holding hands into the sunset?

 

[USCtrojan]

How bout them Trojans? Where's Pete?

Pete's at the Seahawks Speedtape, have you not been following sports news? He didn't want anything to do with the Falcons, can't say I blame him. Although the Falcons GM is a huge fan of the Trojans and in fact played on his daddy's NC team. Pretty cool huh?

OneList wouldn't prevent furloughs, but it could have protected some of the 136. There is no sharing Speedtape as we'd be 1. But it would appear you're not interested in protecting any of your own as long as you are immune. Good job ALPA lover.

Scott Hall, Charlie Tutt, to name a few on the 80%. But I'll tell you what, I'll write Brad and ask him specifically. I'll get clarification on that, but I'm pretty sure it's true....As SkyWest increased their presence in ATL while ASA furloughed. (Wait, that's Delta's doing, right?)

You have never heard me complain about my commute. I know this because I don't. Who else are you going to speak for Speedtape? You know this because you secretly worship the Trojans and Delta? I have stated it can be tough in the Summer, but I've learned to bid around it with vacation, Speedtape. Benefits of being a Senior pilot. Sort of stated this before, but apparently you don't believe me. Again, wear that helmet when you ride, it's dangerous out there.

Funny you should say "most" ASA pilots don't want OneList. I'd say most do. I'd love to poll the numbers. In fact, I'd love to poll the numbers who'd like to keep ALPA around. Hate to tell you this, but I believe ALPA would be voted out if there was a strong Decertification effort (not that I'm for this, I'm not). Our Union has lost a lot of its support in the last few years, no thanks to National. I've talked to our MEC Chairman and he point blank told me he'd never go for a SOC push because "the numbers aren't there..." Meaning he knows ALPA would be voted out should it happen. There's your biggest fear, thumper.

Not sure about SkyWest. A few I've heard on the bus state they were strongly in favor of it, of course their domicile just got shut down, so I can understand that. Other than that, they have benefitted from ASA's misery. They were on the receiving end of accepting aircraft (growth), and got to fly in and out of Delta's busiest hub as a result. They haven't seen any negativity as of yet. Doubt they will. But I'm sure you'll see more on board if the whipsaw turns against them.

Fear mongering? Geez, you're reaching now, Speedtape. You forget to wear your helmet? Inc. controls ASA. Their very good at what they do and can do what they want with us. You can believe our fate lies in Delta's hands. Fact is, it does not. That's not fear mongering, Speedtape, that's reality. Delta can't run a Regional Airline. They make schedules. We are better off not being whipsawed by Delta and Inc. Ask how the Mesaba and Comair pilots enjoy being wholly owned. I'm sooooooo glad Delta is not running ASA, and sincerely hope they never will again. Things are a lot better now, Speedtape, is that fear mongering?

Staple, no. But after talking to our Captain Rep elect, I believe a deal can be worked out. Get the work done before it happens. Not much good if we bury our head in the sand. We have to prepare as it can happen at anytime.

I'm done with this thread. But before I go, just want to say thank you. You bring up a lot of good points. None that change my mind, but good points nonetheless. Good luck to you and bringing ALPA to the World. Everyone loves it, just ask Joe.

Trojan

 

[aircombat]

I know that it’s gotten to the point were it’s beating a dead horse. And I know that there is a better than good chance that PBS will be voted in. I could sell a pilot group hepatitis if I said there “could” be growth in it.

I just don’t want people to say the same old “Nobody told me about that loophole”. I also don’t want the junior guys to think that this is going to increase their QOL. Unless they like working low bock pairings with minimum days off.

If you want to play “TheGame” then you better know what your odds are. This is a numbers game and if the math doesn’t add up, you lose. You can still be a part of the Big Picture and not be a winner. If you want to increase your odds at TheGame a merger would help (period) PBS is a bargaining chip you won’t be able to get back.

 

[USCtrojan]

Last reply on this this thread.

It is indeed 80% for SkyWest Inc (Connection from ATL). Additionally there are few more numbers out there, however, the 80% has already been adjusted from an ASA number to SkyWest Inc. number. SkyWest Inc. can and will adjust anything they need that ASA has to fit their business model. Not fear mongering, just facts.

Have a good ride. Cheers, and thanks to all you reading this ridiculously long thread, it's dead to me.

Trojan