No comment on ASA PBS LOA yet?

[USCtrojan]

How bout them Trojans!

How about them Trojans Speedtape? Who is your team, the Atlanta Falcons?

All 136 is NOT true. As there would be a mix of OO pilots that would be in ATL as well (assuming OneList).

United is already seeing an increase in Summer '10 bookings. Not arguing they are in trouble, but I believe they'll be fine longterm. No, I've not seen the language on the DCI Contract, however, that being said, it was announced the "80%" rule was now changed from ASA to SkyWest Inc. I believe SH announced it awhile back.

Delta does have all control. However, Inc. can be very persuasive in controlling certain costs associated with who flies where. Inc. CONTROLS ASA.

I'm not arguing ASA will be going away. Never have, Speedtape. It will be widdled down as we are the punching bag. As long as things get good, we'll get scraps. When things get bad, we get to be the punching bag (furlough while SkyWest operates in and out of ATL-- yeah yeah yeah, Delta controls that, right?).

I'm fine with commuting the rest of my Career. I can make a change anytime I feel like it. How would you know how I feel about commuting as you have never heard me complain about it? It also affords me the opportunity to see Family much more often than I would. As far as commuting with OneList, fine by me. I gain greater job security. Thank you very much. Inc. can take us into Ch. 11 anytime they want to. They are extremely savvy and their turnaround of ASA is proof (Did Delta control that too? other than the sale?).

I don't argue against ALPA representation Speedtape. I am in favor of it in our present state. I'm not worried about losing representation in favor of OneList. I believe together the pilot groups can decide what is best, since we BOTH have a vested interest in Inc.'s success.

How have I attacked ALPA chump? You beating your chest right now? Watch out for that oncoming traffic, and stay safe you hear?

Trojan

 

[buscap]

OK!!

Shark jump was about 2 pages ago.

For a while the debate actually yielded great points and folks learned some things.

But now the thumb wielding leather jacketed waterboy coaching waterskiing fool has taken to the air!!

It is time to pull the plug on HAL!!



Dave...

Stop..

Will you stop?....Dave...I'm afraid

 

[OCP]

How can there be a “worse PBS system”? Maybe by using a different computer program.
There really isn’t much in this LOA concerning PBS. The vacation bit is about the only thing I noticed. I just can’t see the pilots voting in a PBS system with no vacation language in it, and I doubt that the company would wait until it went to arbitration. Plus the union could say no to arbitration.

Yes there is a lot to do with PBS in this LOA!!! Read it! not the least is it gives the union input in creating the pairings. They have to run the bid solutions together and have to agree before they are published. Maybe you should read it again and focus a little less on what you want to see and what is actually there.

 

[USCtrojan]

OK!!

Shark jump was about 2 pages ago.

For a while the debate actually yielded great points and folks learned some things.

But now the thumb wielding leather jacketed waterboy coaching waterskiing fool has taken to the air!!

It is time to pull the plug on HAL!!



Dave...

Stop..

Will you stop?....Dave...I'm afraid

What you don't like the evolution? ;-).

Trojan

 

[aircombat]

Speedtape, you consistently are trying to make it sound like people wanting an easier commute is the primary reasoning behind OneList. Your reasoning if flawed and also you are a hypocrite because it’s you that has the ulterative motive by wanting to be bought back by Delta.

Skywest may own us, but Delta still controls our destiny. What would be so wrong with being sold? If we were sold, I would imagine the Party who has the most vested interest in us would be the Principal. For that reason, I don't want one list, and don't want to go down that road spending one cent of capital trying to achieve it. (I know that it will never happen, and for good reason!) We are much more valuable as a separate company and it is more beneficial to keep us separate. If I had to guess, I would say that there may be something contractual somewhere that dictates that we will remain separate to protect the interests of Contractor.

You are like the orphan that wants to stay in the orphanage just for the chance that your real parents might come back to pick you up. And to say that it’s less risky is just the furthest thing from the truth. The only way that it would be more risky is if we negotiated a staple.

It’s highly unlikely that we will operate as a separate company forever. That leaves one of three possibilities. We could be sold (not likely), We could be dissolved (a full dissolve is unlikely), or we could be merged (most likely). Waiting around until Skywest is unionized and this goes down on their terms and giving up our leverage, is not a wise idea.

Reference Shuttle America/Rupublic merger. Not much is written about it. I guess people don’t like writing sad stories. Republic wanted a staple, and Shuttle wanted wanted date of hire, since Shuttle America had nothing to bargain with it went to arbitration. The end result was a partial staple for Shuttle America. More than half of the Shuttle pilots were upset with the results. I feel that it’s a little ironic that right before all of that Republic displaced all of Shuttle America from Pittsburg to…., you guessed it, Dulles.

If we had leverage (PBS) we could negotiate “in good faith”. If this goes to arbitration a similar outcome is likely.

 

[buscap]

Die thread!!!

Die!

Die!

Die

 

[aircombat]

Yes there is a lot to do with PBS in this LOA!!! Read it! not the least is it gives the union input in creating the pairings. They have to run the bid solutions together and have to agree before they are published. Maybe you should read it again and focus a little less on what you want to see and what is actually there.

Wow.. It sounds like you should read the LOA. I wrote many pages back how the PWG is a complete false sense of control. I hate repeating myself but I will recap.

The PWG members will “work” 18 days a month and each be credited 108 hrs plus what ever pay they get for union work. There is a provision in there that allows them to do the “work” at home on “weekends, holidays, and scheduling conflicts“. They have no binding input in pairing construction. I repeat no binding input in pairing construction. It will only be taken into “consideration”. Regarding the bid run solutions, for the most part if you bid properly and don’t leave vague preferences there should only be one bid run solution. Since most people will bid properly the wiggle room is going to be very limited to say the least. This safety net has little control and if the PWG argues it will come down to a coin toss.

So I ask again how can there be a “worse PBS system”?

 

[WWEfan]

So I ask again how can there be a “worse PBS system”?

ALPA has the ability to accept and reject bid run solutions. No one else has that. No one. If management starts to exploit "loopholes" in the agreement all ALPA has to do is reject the bid runs. It really is that simple.

 

[OCP]

ALPA has the ability to accept and reject bid run solutions. No one else has that. No one. If management starts to exploit "loopholes" in the agreement all ALPA has to do is reject the bid runs. It really is that simple.

Seems so simple doesn't it? I'm done. I know which way our friend is going to vote. Good luck to us all.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Die thread!!!

Die!

Die!

Die

This thread must die now....

Combat will vote no to this LOA no matter what anybody on this board posts thus why waste anymore of you time. His mind was made up 24+ pgs ago.

 

[aircombat]

ALPA has the ability to accept and reject bid run solutions. No one else has that. No one. If management starts to exploit "loopholes" in the agreement all ALPA has to do is reject the bid runs. It really is that simple.

They can do that 3 times in a 6 month period. Each time a coin toss will determine which sides solution will be used. So maybe they could reject it about 50% of 3 times in a 6 month period. If they dispute more it will go to arbitration. What reason would they give the arbitrator for not taking the companies lines? There is no guidance on this, and who is to say that one solution is better than another. Like you guys keep pointing out what one person likes isn’t always what another person wants.

Remember it’s the computer that is going to make lines for just about everyone. Only a little wiggle room for certain people that probably left a vague bid or is so junior they only get the leftovers.

 

[Speedtape]

How about them Trojans Speedtape? Who is your team, the Atlanta Falcons?
Now, now, I sense some hostility! Are you a Falcon hater?

All 136 is NOT true. As there would be a mix of OO pilots that would be in ATL as well (assuming OneList).
So OneList wouldn't prevent furloughs? And, you are ok with furloughs as long as Skywest shares in the misery? Hmmm Skywest Pilots, are you listening?

United is already seeing an increase in Summer '10 bookings. Not arguing they are in trouble, but I believe they'll be fine longterm. No, I've not seen the language on the DCI Contract, however, that being said, it was announced the "80%" rule was now changed from ASA to SkyWest Inc. I believe SH announced it awhile back.
If SH said it, it must be true! What happened to Electronic Flight Bags? If you put creedance in what he says, that explains alot!

Delta does have all control. However, Inc. can be very persuasive in controlling certain costs associated with who flies where. Inc. CONTROLS ASA.
Ok, I agree with some of that.

I'm not arguing ASA will be going away. Never have, Speedtape. It will be widdled down as we are the punching bag. As long as things get good, we'll get scraps. When things get bad, we get to be the punching bag (furlough while SkyWest operates in and out of ATL-- yeah yeah yeah, Delta controls that, right?).
Sorry, I don't buy into your observation and hate mongering! ASA furloughed because our block hours were greatly reduced! Less block hours mean the need for less pilots. Does that make any sense? It's real basic and even a Caveman can understand it!

I'm fine with commuting the rest of my Career. I can make a change anytime I feel like it. How would you know how I feel about commuting as you have never heard me complain about it? It also affords me the opportunity to see Family much more often than I would. As far as commuting with OneList, fine by me. I gain greater job security. Thank you very much.
I'm glad you are fine with commuting the rest of your career--your choice! I have heard you complain about commuting, as have others. OneList does not guarantee you job security--it's a fantasy!

Inc. can take us into Ch. 11 anytime they want to. They are extremely savvy and their turnaround of ASA is proof (Did Delta control that too? other than the sale?).
First, ASA is no where near bankruptcy and never will be! "They" is who and what "turnaround"? Please, cease and desist with the fear mongering! Just because you state it, does not make it so. Fear Mongering will not get you "OneList" so that you don't have to commute.

I don't argue against ALPA representation Speedtape. I am in favor of it in our present state. I'm not worried about losing representation in favor of OneList. I believe together the pilot groups can decide what is best, since we BOTH have a vested interest in Inc.'s success.
Most Skywest Pilots do not want OneList and for good reason. Most ASA pilots do not want OneList and for good reason. Your arguments are weak. Four airplanes were transferred in the heat of negotiations, and the pilots did not flinch! If it was a threat and it was so effective, why not more than 4? In that same period, airplanes were transferred to ASA from Comair! Did any ASA pilot complain about that and what did that mean?

How have I attacked ALPA chump? You beating your chest right now? Watch out for that oncoming traffic, and stay safe you hear?
Who is ALPA chump? I don't know him. I am not beating my chest. I understand the reality. If Inc. wants us merged, then we will be merged! However, I doubt that it will ever happen for a multitude of reasons--including legal, financial, and strategic. Not to mention, that Most of the Skywest Pilots are opposed to OneList, unless you are stapled! Is that what you want?

Trojan

How bout them Trojans? Where's Pete?

 

[Speedtape]

Speedtape, you consistently are trying to make it sound like people wanting an easier commute is the primary reasoning behind OneList.
Your reading comprehension skills are in question, which may explain your inconsistent and incongruent arguments. Your statement is false and totally absent of factual content.
Your reasoning if flawed and also you are a hypocrite because it’s you that has the ulterative motive by wanting to be bought back by Delta.
Are you are the authority on flawed reasoning? It is common concensus that you don't hold a consistent position and lack the ability to make arguments with strong foundation. Yes, I am a hypocrite, as are all men--it's just a matter to what degree! However, I have made progress in the 12 step program, as I have gotten past the denial stage. What about you? We all have ulterior motives--unless you are an amoeba! My ulterior motive is to maintain my job, protect my pay and benefits, contribute to the growth and success of my Company, and to aggressively attack stupidity in it's tracks--before the rest of us become contaminated!

You are like the orphan that wants to stay in the orphanage just for the chance that your real parents might come back to pick you up.
It is appalling that you would analogize and exploit the plight of orphans. Are you pious and sanctimonious--or just an insensitive sloth?
And to say that it’s less risky is just the furthest thing from the truth. The only way that it would be more risky is if we negotiated a staple.
"WE" want be negotiating anything!

It’s highly unlikely that we will operate as a separate company forever.
Are you listening to voices?

And the Tea Leaves say:
That leaves one of three possibilities. We could be sold (not likely), We could be dissolved (a full dissolve is unlikely), or we could be merged (most likely). Waiting around until Skywest is unionized and this goes down on their terms and giving up our leverage, is not a wise idea.

Reference Shuttle America/Rupublic merger. Not much is written about it. I guess people don’t like writing sad stories. Republic wanted a staple, and Shuttle wanted wanted date of hire, since Shuttle America had nothing to bargain with it went to arbitration. The end result was a partial staple for Shuttle America. More than half of the Shuttle pilots were upset with the results. I feel that it’s a little ironic that right before all of that Republic displaced all of Shuttle America from Pittsburg to…., you guessed it, Dulles.
Blah, blah, blah! Is this relevant and why?

If we had leverage (PBS) we could negotiate “in good faith”. If this goes to arbitration a similar outcome is likely.

The above makes no sense. We should always negotiate "in good faith"--with or without leverage. In regard to the above, do your homework and get the facts. Ba-Bye!

 

[Speedtape]

Die thread!!!

Die!

Die!

Die

OR, Practice Personal Censorship--don't click the link!

 

[buscap]

It's like porn!

I can't stop.

It is society's responsibility to keep the world free of my vices, leaving me blameless for my indiscretions. Natalie Portman should not smoke in movies and it's Snoop Dog's fault that I want to do drugs!!

I am considering a lawsuit against the FI Moderators for failing to stop this post. My lawyer says we can recover damages for my lost time.