No comment on ASA PBS LOA yet?

[buscap]

Ok people!!

Here's one for ya!! Listen up!!! Only gonna type this once!!!

The PBS cat is already out of the bag!!! The turd has already been crapped!!! Genie out of the bottle!!! Can't unscramble eggs...and all that other crap.

And it's all way past the tipping point. We ain't reversing this industry trend. Now we can sit here and fight it...all by our freakin selves...with our high costs and most likely shrinking pot of flying.

Or we can jack the bar up just a little with the best PBS system, contract language and work rules.

You guys need to talk to some folks about the PBS LOA. Not one pilot group out there, regional or mainline, has anything like we are considering. And the reason for that is because most of them got PBS at the point of a spear.

Yeah this ain't great, but we need to take a close look at the opportunity here. This may be our last best chance to control the screwing.

We keep our costs high and I'll bet a brand new pair of mormon long-johns Mr. A will just plain fak us into the trash pile of oblivion.

In no way does that man want us to be the cheapest out there. He is no idiot and knows very much who he is dealing with. But he will do what any sharp businessman would in this situation.

He's got two airlines with very different operational ledgers. Do the math people!! Besides, I believe if approved, the LOA will result in the Flightline system migrating over to the Skywest side, which will raise their costs slightly, much to our benefit.

Read this again. And I'm not nearly as well informed as these other guys.

 

[OCP]

This is like saying you have the most awesome Yugo in the world. It is still a Yugo.
Again, I haven't spoken to anyone who said that PBS made things better, but a lot said things got worse. Even if the ASA letter is the best in the industry, empirically speaking, PBS still is a bad deal.

Funny just 2 days ago I was talking to a Delta guy who said he loved it and it gave him so much more flexibility in his schedule. I even went on to tell him some of the items in our LOA and he was impressed.

 

[GeekMaster]

This is like saying you have the most awesome Yugo in the world. It is still a Yugo.
Again, I haven't spoken to anyone who said that PBS made things better, but a lot said things got worse. Even if the ASA letter is the best in the industry, empirically speaking, PBS still is a bad deal.

Fine....you wanna use that comparison.....right now we're manufacturing Edsels. While we might like them but NO ONE else in the car buying world wants to buy them; not Delta, not United, Not U.S. Air.


Euphemisms aside, THIS IS PBS. Either IT or the eventual death of our airline is coming our way. It's up to us to choose. The wise men among us will choose that which best benefits us. Given the chance to choose the "best" PBS LOA and system out there (Yugo) vs. the eventual death of my Airline (Edsel), I choose the PBS.

I hope others with a more level head agree.

 

[79%N1]

PCL is "schooling" you aircombat. Please pay attention and take a lesson. You sound clueless and juvenille! People here are filling all of your arguments with holes, but you are stubbornly clinging to your position. You opinion is yours, but your arguements make no sense and are based on conjecture, not facts.

 

[aircombat]

PCL is "schooling" you aircombat. Please pay attention and take a lesson. You sound clueless and juvenille! People here are filling all of your arguments with holes, but you are stubbornly clinging to your position. You opinion is yours, but your arguements make no sense and are based on conjecture, not facts.

Whatever. The only thing the union has done is make themselves sound week and hopeless. To say they can’t use PBS to their advantage in section 6 really makes me lose all faith in them. If they are shooting holes in everything I say why can’t they answer the question I have about their statement regarding the company not saving a dime until we grow. In actuality they can and will save money when we shrink through attrition to profitability.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Whatever. The only thing the union has done is make themselves sound week and hopeless. To say they can’t use PBS to their advantage in section 6 really makes me lose all faith in them. If they are shooting holes in everything I say why can’t they answer the question I have about their statement regarding the company not saving a dime until we grow. In actuality they can and will save money when we shrink through attrition to profitability.

You haven't answered the question as to where the "attrition" is going to come from....How are we going to see much attrition in this environment?

 

[Jack-O-Lantern]

Knock Knock Knock, hello. anybody there?

 

[Poppa Hodax]

....Either IT or the eventual death of our airline is coming our way.
[snip]

I am having a little trouble accepting your supposition that the only possible outcome of not accepting this (and only this) PBS offer is the inevitable, inescapable end of ASA.

 

[GeekMaster]

I am having a little trouble accepting your supposition that the only possible outcome of not accepting this (and only this) PBS offer is the inevitable, inescapable end of ASA.

Accepting "this" offer is wiser because it will be the best one that crosses our table. If we reject it, I suppose that before we let ourselves die, we will accept another offer in the future. It just won't be as good. Even if it's the exact same offer, we will have lost the opportunities that go other directions in the mean time.

 

[asayankee]

You haven't answered the question as to where the "attrition" is going to come from....How are we going to see much attrition in this environment?

and nobody has answered the question of where the growth will be from!!!

 

[Poppa Hodax]

...Either IT or the eventual death of our airline is coming our way. It's up to us to choose.
[snip]

The future is (tautologically) unknown. While I acknowledge that the end of the airline is a possibility, I don't agree that it is even a likely probability. Please PM me if you have some means of knowing otherwise: I have a couple of Super Bowl and lottery questions.

I intend to read the LOA with regard to what the agreement will definitely do to our status quo, not what it might do to our future:
- Does it improve the quality of the scheduling?
- Does it favor only the senior?
- Do we make more money?
- Can I turn one week of vacation into three?
- Any improvements for the Reserves, or are they forgotten again?
Concomitantly, I will pay particular regard to the language. Too many "shoulds" and "will make an efforts", and not enough "wills" and "shalls" is a deal breaker.

 

[aircombat]

and nobody has answered the question of where the growth will be from!!!

Exactly. So I’m not the only one. If you guys haven’t noticed there is no growth right now, just stagnation. There has been more attrition here in the past few years then growth. And that trend will just increase over the next 5 years.

 

[LazyLightnin']

5 Years seems a little drastic.

Plus, there's a couple of positive rumors regarding expansion. Albeit they're rumors and the Vietnam one excluded.

You really think Inc. is not actively pursuing growth?

 

[aircombat]

Accepting "this" offer is wiser because it will be the best one that crosses our table. If we reject it, I suppose that before we let ourselves die, we will accept another offer in the future. It just won't be as good. Even if it's the exact same offer, we will have lost the opportunities that go other directions in the mean time.

I still haven’t gotten a good answer why this will be the best offer and we will get garbage later? The best answer that I have gotten is. “You don’t understand section 6 negotiations“. That’s not an answer. That’s just an intimidation tactic. You guys like to fall for those just as fast as the smoke and mirrors tactics.
I don’t even know why I bother when you guys openly say you don’t care about what this might do to the future just what will you get out of it right now. Again I’m sure that is what the people said when they voted your high paying job away by relaxing scope. I hope you all enjoy the 5+ years of section 6 you are setting yourselves up for nicely.

 

[aircombat]

5 Years seems a little drastic.

Plus, there's a couple of positive rumors regarding expansion. Albeit they're rumors and the Vietnam one excluded.

You really think Inc. is not actively pursuing growth?

I say these things only from past experiences, not just because I like to make things up. Why not 5 years that’s how long the last contract took. PBS was supposed to be our leverage this time. Now Obama is going to be our leverage?
Yes I do think Inc is seeking growth and what makes you think that the growth won’t go to Skywest. Because you saved them a fraction of a percent? We are still going to be more expensive. Furthermore I worked at a regional that was purchased by another. They were shrunk until they were more manageable and then partially stapled. Our lists will merge eventually. What are we waiting for. Skywest to shrink us and get a Union. There goes our leverage for that one as well.