No comment on ASA PBS LOA yet?

[blesko]

They used industry leading PBS to secure improvements in the current contract. If it gets voted down then the company has a LOT more leverage with the entire contract next time around. As has been said, getting it before the next round will allow us to judge what we like and don't and in the next round refine those points. We will not get that oppertunity if it's lumped into the next contract.

Weren't there supposed to be a mix of trips as per the contract? Weren't the trips supposed to be front-loaded as per the contract? If I'm correct, this certainly has not been enforced, so why do I have any faith that anything we do further will be enforced as well? I'm not voting yes, or voting no yet as I want to find out the exact language of the TA first, however, ALPA needs to be held accountable for enforcing what they negotioate. The conpany sure as hell won't do it.

What's ALPA saying we're doing this and dammit we're gonna uphold this? I haven't heard one d*mn thing about that yet. Stand behind it and I might be more likely to vote yes.

 

[Poppa Hodax]

[snip]
In an environment where we could likely voting on concessions, we increase our vacation and min day credit....
[snip]

....or we wait a couple of years until Age 65 kicks in and the mainline geezers retire in droves. Then The Company might be scrambling to keep pilots and we can name our price.
I think it foolish to base a decision regarding PBS on whether you suspect ASA will get more flying as a result. The future in general, and the airline industry in particular, are capricious at best. Even if ASA/Skywest/Delta swear that more flying will come if we merely accept PBS (and they can pinky swear and really, really, totally mean it), that doesn't mean anything tomorrow. Bases come and bases go, as do airplanes and overnights. Promises mean nothing. I trust Magic 8 Ball about as much as Union and Company predictions and promises.
I plan on reading the LOA with an eye towards improvements in things right now. Anything promised, implied, or suggested has no value. The language is what matters. Again, I am inclined to vote no on the principles involved, and my lack of faith in Management and the Union, but I will see what the agreement actually says.

 

[OCP]

Weren't there supposed to be a mix of trips as per the contract? Weren't the trips supposed to be front-loaded as per the contract? If I'm correct, this certainly has not been enforced, so why do I have any faith that anything we do further will be enforced as well? I'm not voting yes, or voting no yet as I want to find out the exact language of the TA first, however, ALPA needs to be held accountable for enforcing what they negotioate. The conpany sure as hell won't do it.

What's ALPA saying we're doing this and dammit we're gonna uphold this? I haven't heard one d*mn thing about that yet. Stand behind it and I might be more likely to vote yes.

That is the language that we read but didn't take to heart. The contract does say all of that, but after each sentence it goes on to say something to the effect that if the company can't than it doesn't have to. So technically there isn't anything to enforce. What I am hoping to see in this LOA is stronger language so the company doesn't have those "outs" that are unenforceable.

 

[blesko]

That is the language that we read but didn't take to heart. The contract does say all of that, but after each sentence it goes on to say something to the effect that if the company can't than it doesn't have to. So technically there isn't anything to enforce. What I am hoping to see in this LOA is stronger language so the company doesn't have those "outs" that are unenforceable.

So we had the opportunity (not me since I voted no), to secure a industry leading contract with work rules, not necessarily pay, but we pissed it away but reading it but not really caring about it???? HUH? If we did this with the "Contract 07" how are we smart enough as a pilot group to uphold this gem???

 

[OCP]

So we had the opportunity (not me since I voted no), to secure a industry leading contract with work rules, not necessarily pay, but we pissed it away but reading it but not really caring about it???? HUH? If we did this with the "Contract 07" how are we smart enough as a pilot group to uphold this gem???

By learning from past mistakes.

 

[buscap]

So we had the opportunity (not me since I voted no), to secure a industry leading contract with work rules, not necessarily pay, but we pissed it away but reading it but not really caring about it???? HUH? If we did this with the "Contract 07" how are we smart enough as a pilot group to uphold this gem???

Could you please tell me what parts of our contract are not at or above industry?

 

[blesko]

Could you please tell me what parts of our contract are not at or above industry?

Thats not what I'm saying. I think the contract is acceptable, however it would be a hell of a lot better if our union went to bat and actually stood up and ensured it was actually enforced. This red arrow day is still up in the air, front loading of trips, everyone b*tches and its not upheld, mix of legnth of trips, everyone b*tches but where is ALPA in upholding what we currently have? Maybe I'm missing something.....

We have a contract, but we can't enforce it. We need to ensure this PBS TA, if it passes, is dealt with in a different manner.

 

[sweptback]

Thats not what I'm saying. I think the contract is acceptable, however it would be a hell of a lot better if our union went to bat and actually stood up and ensured it was actually enforced. This red arrow day is still up in the air, front loading of trips, everyone b*tches and its not upheld, mix of legnth of trips, everyone b*tches but where is ALPA in upholding what we currently have? Maybe I'm missing something.....

We have a contract, but we can't enforce it. We need to ensure this PBS TA, if it passes, is dealt with in a different manner.

How many grievances have you filed? What was the outcome?

 

[buscap]

Even a company raped, grievance rife version of our contract is better than most out there. Now let's make it better.

The PBS LOA may do that. Or not.

But judge the PBS on it's own merits or troubles, not some piddly contract enhancements meant to bribe us.

The PBS LOA is about PBS, not fixing everything we don't like about our contract. Leave the fixing of our contract to the next contract and judge PBS on it's own.

 

[blesko]

How many grievances have you filed? What was the outcome?

2 and none, thank you