NJI Gulfstream pilot hiring

[Grizz]

I guess you guys missed the big toothy grin I put at the end of my last line. Next time I'll add 3-5 more to make sure you guys get the parts of my posts put in there just to get a rise.

 

[zman300]

total time is total time.

I bet if all the military guys jump in you'd get 10 different answers.. thus the PM.

Now that you've peaked my interest lets see how it breaks down. I could call some friends and ask them but it's cocktail time.

Adios

As I thought, you don't have any idea, and still can't understand the impact. No big deal, but don't suggest that I would tell Seaspray to "massage" his logbook without knowing what you're talking about, and more importantly, what I'm talking about. I don't know too many in the military (none, in fact), who would condone unethical behavior. If Seaspray needs help with his resume, and making sure his experience is represented adequately, I'm more than willing to help him, but don't try to goad or insult me on this forum by implying I'm telling him to "massage" his numbers.

 

[zman300]

I guess you guys missed the big toothy grin I put at the end of my last line. Next time I'll add 3-5 more to make sure you guys get the parts of my posts put in there just to get a rise.

I think they know you're just jabbing. They're just trying to make you feel guilty

 

[Diesel]

I don't know too many in the military (none, in fact), who would condone unethical behavior.

hmmmm tailhook?


Nobody condone's ethical behavior it just happens. Military or civilian. Just look at the "how long before this guy is dead" thread. Thats it in its purest form.

Lets see the breakdown though. Like I said you've peaked my interest.

 

[zman300]

Nobody condone's ethical behavior

Actually, I condone ethical behavior.

I know I peaked your interest, but you don't need help with your resume. I merely presented the scenario to you to illustrate the fact that you didn't know what I was talking about, but nevertheless suggested I was telling Seaspray to massage his logbook.

Talk to your military buddies, though. I think you'll find their answers interesting; especially when you ask them how they'd translate the answer to a civilian resume. And as I said, that's just one scenario!

 

[Diesel]

Yeah engrish wasn't my strong suit.

Common post it here how 21hrs can translate. Lets see how your scenario works out.

 

[CL60]

Piqued?

hmmmm tailhook?


Nobody condone's ethical behavior it just happens. Military or civilian. Just look at the "how long before this guy is dead" thread. Thats it in its purest form.

Lets see the breakdown though. Like I said you've peaked my interest.

 

[VVJM265]

Mil to Civ conversions

It's not about massaging anything, fool. It's about how the military logs your time.

The salient issue is the that the FAA & services (specifically USN here) define flight time differently:

FAA (FAR part 1) definition:
Flight time means: (1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing;

Navy (OPNAV 3710.7T) definition:
Flight:3b. For recording and reporting purposes, a flight begins when the aircraft first moves forward on its takeoff run or takes off vertically from rest at any point of support and ends after airborne flight when the aircraft is on the surface and either:
(1) The engines are stopped or the aircraft has been on the surface for 5 minutes, whichever comes first
(2) A change is made in the pilot in command.

The carriers recognize the difference in definitions and each uses a slightly different metric. Here’s a breakout of how my Navy time as of yesterday would convert based on some different conversion factors:

4787.2 hrs & 2116 sorties at:

NetJets: 1.2 * total converts to 5744.6 hrs
SWA: 0.3 hr per sortie converts to 5422 hrs
FedEx: 0.2 hrs per sortie converts to 5210.4 hrs
JetBlue: 1.3 * total converts to 6223.4
(Pretty sure JB’s conversion used to be on their website, but did not find it today; maybe someone can verify.)

Personally, if I’m sending a resume to a company that doesn’t list a conversion factor, I’ll use FedEx’s conservative factor of 0.2 hrs per sortie, with a note under the flight hours breakout. I have no ethical quandary using doing so since I have at least 423 hours of sitting in line at Naples for 20 mins waiting to take off, or 15 min taxi fam around Lisbon to get to the holdshort, or 5-10 mins “lined up and waiting” at Sigonella, or the 20 mins it takes to get a student from the chocks, thru the runup checklist, wait at the hold short 10 and finally get airborne, etc., etc., etc.

Will save the discussion about aircraft commander time for another day.

My 2 cents,
VVJM265

 

[zman300]

Will save the discussion about aircraft commander time for another day.

My 2 cents,
VVJM265

Yipee! I knew military types would understand! And as you suggest, that still wouldn't fully answer the scenario I presented....

 

[VVJM265]

You're the "A" code on a 21 hour leg; you have an augmented crew. What will your military flight log look like at the end of the leg? Break it down for me.

Here’s the answer to zman300’s scenario, although I used 9 hrs for the longest mission to illustrate how the A time can vary. In this situation the differences in definitions between the FAA and the Navy are virtually nil; however, comparing part 61.51 to the Navy definitions becomes problematic. If we just look at part 1, it is fairly straightforward:

FAA (FAR part 1) definition:
Pilot in command means the person who:
(1) Has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight;
(2) Has been designated as pilot in command before or during the flight; and
(3) Holds the appropriate category, class, and type rating, if appropriate, for the conduct of the flight.

Navy (OPNAV 3710.7T) definitions:
Aircraft Commander Time. The individual flight time during which an individual, designated as a qualified aircraft commander in the aircraft model being flown, is serving as pilot in command. Aircraft commander time is a measure of command experience rather than of pilot experience.

Pilot in Command. The pilot assigned responsibility for safe and orderly conduct of the flight.




​

Here’s a matrix that shows a notional month with four flights for a particular pilot flying P-3s. In each flight, he’ll log 6 hours of pilot time, but the amount of Aircraft Commander time will vary from 0 to 9 hours, depending on the number of pilots and who signs for the aircraft.

Total Pilot / 1st Pilot / 2nd Pilot / Special Crew / Aircraft Cdr

​

3 plts;
9 hr mssn;
Aircraft Cdr: Yes_______6_________3________3__________3____________9

3 plts;
9 hr mssn;
Aircraft Cdr: No _______6_________3________3__________3____________0

2 plts;
6 hr mssn;
Aircraft Cdr: Yes _______6_________3________3__________0____________6

3 plts;
6 hr mssn;
Aircraft Cdr: No ________6_________3________3__________0____________0

Month Total __________24________12_______12__________6___________15

Hope this helps; back to my regularly scheduled staff work…
265

 

[DO-82 driver]

No matter how you break it down...Military guys need to remember that they are no longer in the military....you are now in the civilian world and you need to start thinking like commercial pilots. Somewthines the "mission" cannot be completed!!!!!!!

The past few tour I have encountered too many former miltary pilots who think they are still wearing green. Follow your contract guys and gals!!!!

Stop falling on your sword!!!!!!! You are worth more than that!!!!!

 

[zman300]

No matter how you break it down...Military guys need to remember that they are no longer in the military....you are now in the civilian world and you need to start thinking like commercial pilots. Somewthines the "mission" cannot be completed!!!!!!!

The past few tour I have encountered too many former miltary pilots who think they are still wearing green. Follow your contract guys and gals!!!!

Stop falling on your sword!!!!!!! You are worth more than that!!!!!

Ummm, okaaay. That has to do with flight time how? Plus I think what you said is a bit of an insult to civilian pilots: they don't want to try to make the "mission" happen? Or maybe an insult to military pilots: they're too dumb to know when a "mission" can't be completed?

In spite of the goofiness of your comment, I agree with you to a point. I'll bend over backwards to make a trip happen (I guess that's the military, not the "commercial" pilot in me), but not outside of what the rules/safety allow (that would be the smart, not dumb, military pilot in me). The contract? Well, we don't need no stinkin' contract to tell us what's smart or not. We use a little thing called "judgement," which is what I think the guys you've been running into your last few tours were employing. Good for them!

 

[wolfpackpilot]

you are now in the civilian world and you need to start thinking like commercial pilots. Somewthines the "mission" cannot be completed!!!

Spoken like the true bleeding heart liberal unionist you are. Your one more ignorant little fella, but I'll give you one thing; you stick to your guns.


On another note:

I love Military pilots, they're either a blast to fly and hang out with, or they're the butt of all jokes in the company... we have both. My retired AF sim partner had the best line ever, anyone who decodes this gets a snickers!

"Slap me 30, and give me leg"

 

[Count]

I thought this was a NJI hiring board. I heard they just hired some guys

 

[wolfpackpilot]

I heard they just hired

And fired...

 

[DO-82 driver]

Spoken like the true bleeding heart liberal unionist you are.

LOL.....If you only knew the truth G.I Joe.

 

[batsky2000]

On another note:

I love Military pilots, they're either a blast to fly and hang out with, or they're the butt of all jokes in the company... we have both. My retired AF sim partner had the best line ever, anyone who decodes this gets a snickers!

"Slap me 30, and give me leg"

How true, you are right we have both, being ex-AF myself, I have flown with both, and the butt heads are real butt heads

As for the decode, "Flaps 30, Gear down?"

 

[wolfpackpilot]

As for the decode, "Flaps 30, Gear down?"

Folks we have a BINGO... hold your cards!


I guess you had to be there, but this guy was from Alabamie with a good old southern accent like mine, and when he said that I dang near lost it. He flew Tankers in the AF, so he wasnt your typical Militard pilot!:blush:

Snickers is in the mail... hope it doesnt melt!

 

[old*art]

Not quite as obtuse as yours Wolf, but a favorite of mine from an old AF LtCol was "put the casins' in the wind". Being another old southerner, I just wish I could convey his tempo while saying it.