NJA TA...What's your bet?

[netjetwife]

I've noticed that senior pilots complaining about getting left out in the IBB proposal usually fail to mention the $25,000 signing bonus, $10,000 longevity bonus, and the 4% annual bonuses. That is on top of excellent benefits. Many pilots would be quite happy to trade places and would consider themselves lucky to be so "ignored"...

 

[NJA Capt]

I've noticed that senior pilots complaining about getting left out in the IBB proposal usually fail to mention the $25,000 signing bonus, $10,000 longevity bonus, and the 4% annual bonuses.

Let's see: For the duration of the contract, a 12 Year 7/7 Captain will see an additional $15K (with a pay cut for the last 4 years. A newhire FO will see an additional $158K. I'll let you rethink that bonus money idea.

The senior guys aren't blinded by the neon lights of the pay and the domiciles. They are looking beyond those things at the "bigger picture" if you will. Some of us aren't in the 14+ range yet, but we will be when the end of the contract rolls around. $25k isn't going far to offset the loss of retiree medical and the dozens of other givebacks.

You have to ask yourself if the pay and the bases were not part of the equation, would you still vote to approve it? I doubt it. Remember, one day the junior guys will be the senior guys. The benefits we give up will be your own.

Less than 78% turnout
Less than 65% if it passes

 

[hopalong]

I bet at least 75% pass.

 

[T-1GUY]

Think of this TA as a catch up for the FO's. It would seem some greedy falcon pilots left us out in the cold during the 2005 CBA. If I here one more guy bitch about how he got left out in the cold while he is making $150K plus easy I will scream. I know.. I know.. we didn't walk the line in 2005 in the snow up hill both ways... Give me a Fu**ing break with your whining....

 

[Diesel]

Give me a Fu**ing break with your whining....

Then T-1 Give us a break with your bitching about having to commute to your domicle and the pay.... Both of which you knew about BEFORE coming here.

The rules didn't change on you. You just don't like the rules.

100 percent pass if NJW had her way.

62 to 68% pass is my over under.

 

[T-1GUY]

Nevermind..

 

[Dr Pepper]

I'll bet that all but 4 Falcon PICs vote no. Some will brainwash 1 or 2 Falcon SICs to vote their way. The majority of the rest of the FOs will vote yes, another me vote, because they cannot afford not too. The real vote will be decided by the rest of the pilot group. Reserve PICs might do more fence sitting and lean towards no. My guess is a low passing margin of 57% yeah, 40% neigh, 3% no vote.

Does anyone know why the timeline says on or about 20 Nov? Why is the date not definitive?

 

[FLYLOW22]

Hey Falcon guy..... Im with you, its a no vote for me...just waaay to many givebacks to the company. the noobies scored really big and the rest of us get the crumbs. Most of us realize they need it but at our big time expense????

I've never been accused of being hasty or stupid. I just don't see the give backs.

For my sake.... please list the many givebacks for me to review.

I just don't see the overall loss. Help me help you help me...

 

[Fozzy]

and the dozens of other givebacks.

Lets hear them. Give me 13.
Edit. You said dozens. Give me 24.

 

[ce750drvr]

Then T-1 Give us a break with your bitching about having to commute to your domicle and the pay.... Both of which you knew about BEFORE coming here.

The rules didn't change on you. You just don't like the rules.

100 percent pass if NJW had her way.

62 to 68% pass is my over under.

Agreed. If I hear one more guy bitch about the commute or pay, I'm gonna f*ckin break somebody. I drove 6.5 hours one way for 5 years and started out at $27,108. But I knew what I was getting into and dealt with it. BO said himself that we should discuss it with our family and vote what is best for us. Therefore making it a "I" vote. So that is what I'm going to do. I'm going to vote what is best for ME AND MY FAMILY. "I", "ME", not anyone else. I'm tired of being frowned upon for not being a "team player" or what is best for the group. Bite me, what is best for "you" might not be best for "me"

 

[hopalong]

Agreed. If I hear one more guy bitch about the commute or pay, I'm gonna f*ckin break somebody. I drove 6.5 hours one way for 5 years and started out at $27,108. But I knew what I was getting into and dealt with it. BO said himself that we should discuss it with our family and vote what is best for us. Therefore making it a "I" vote. So that is what I'm going to do. I'm going to vote what is best for ME AND MY FAMILY. "I", "ME", not anyone else. I'm tired of being frowned upon for not being a "team player" or what is best for the group. Bite me, what is best for "you" might not be best for "me"

I am the first one to agree that seniority has privelages and not once have I compained about the commute or pay. Let me ask all of you this. When do us newbees earn, yes I said EARN the right to have a voice???? Is it 1 year, 2 years, 3, 4 when???? I'm guessing NEVER because we weren't here to fight the fight with you. Don't get me wrong. It is greatly appreciated and I extend my thanks to those that had the guts to stand up and fight. If I was working at NJA at the time I'd be fighting right alongside you. But man, the more I read the more I think
that some, NOT ALL of the pre-rats have a superiority complex. I try to be respectful as I can but it is disappointing to know how soon some of you may have forgotten what it was like when you started. How quickly one forgets.
It seems that all this condescending patroninzing is getting on OUR nerves. Most of you guys have the same stock answer, "Now, you go be good little ugly red headed stepchhildren locked in the basement and we'll let you know when you can come on up and get something to eat you little post-rat. Afterall you knew whatchy'all got yourselves into!" (banjo playing deliverence in the background)

 

[gunfyter]

Actually, if you point out anything you don't like in the TA... those are the people told to shut up and sit in the corner... with a dunce cap on.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Actually, if you point out anything you don't like in the TA... those are the people told to shut up and sit in the corner... with a dunce cap on.

No gun. I think those with "grave concern" ove the TA are painfully silent when asked to discuss (or even list) their reasons for voting no.

A vote is important and should be made after sound reasearch (including talking to the people who negotiated the document), reflection and thought.

I hear many no voters voting no because "they heard" this or they try to connect the dots themselves and come up short.

A CBA is written by lawyers to be interpreted by lawyers and those who interpret the law. Pilots are a second thought. We get caught in the middle.

I have YET to hear REAL concrete information that proves this TA is worthy of a NO. For the record, I started, by default, as a no until I learned enoug about the document to warrant a yes.

That did not occur for me until I read the document twice, highlighted every question I had and then called 3 of the folks that negotiated the TA to find out the rest of the story.

 

[fly4funcrj]

Maybe it's not about the commute. Maybe it's about the fact that we are stuck at a domicile until the company allows us to switch to another. The commute sux, most of you guys have done it and know what it entails. I bet most of you bitched as well about the commute. None of you though had to watch your fellow pilot airline HOME while you airlined to a DUMBICILE just because.
Lets get past the commute bs and look at the difference in rules. So many domicile guys here have commuted longer then most nja guys have worked at nja.
What I do like to hear is the fact that there have been some very avid NO voters who have ACTUALLY read the document and have since reconsidered their vote. Some will still vote no, sure, but others have been able to filter out the bs they hear or read online.
Maybe if everyone stopped posting bs on the board and read the document from cover to cover, there would be less misinformation.

 

[netjetwife]

....
Does anyone know why the timeline says on or about 20 Nov? Why is the date not definitive?

Teamsters has strict rules which govern the voting process. I believe one of them (going from memory) is the amount of days that the group has had to study the proposal. So the date is dependent upon the actual mailing date the document was sent out. Leadership has a plan and tries to follow it but saying "on or about" allows them some room in the schedule. The date set for counting votes is also determined by the rules. NJW