NJA TA...What's your bet?

[captain dad]

I'm curious what you mean by the statement about the Wilson Center. Did they take a pre-vote poll? Or do you mean that they've identified some areas of cremember concern that are addressed in the TA and as such, you expect the TA to pass by a fairly large margin?

Like I said, I wasn't certain what you meant by your statement.

It's just math. I don't know if Wilson or our union has or will put out numbers, but Wilson has a reputation for being extremely accurate in their polls. The poll questions and answers were what the IBB people used to draft the TA. If you add up all the stats from Wilson (for and against in specific issues) you should have a pretty accurate pre-vote tally. I am just guessing but I would say a good majority. Thus 78% is my guess. That is what I meant.

Flame On!

 

[NetjetsFalcon]

I"m a 14 year class 4 guy and I have to be honest when I say I"m just not feelin the love.

Our leadership going into this IBB stated and RE-stated how important it was to secure higher, more competitve salaries for first officers and the most senior captains. The first officers scored big.

The 14 year+ guys were not just overlooked, we were sacrificed. I understand business and demographics, but understandably this feels like a really hard punch to the gut considering how long we long haulers have been waiting for this job to "pay off". My no vote really won't matter much considering the large amount of people this proposal will benefit. The hardest thing for me right now is trying to figure out how I explain to my family that "daddy isn't going to make the money he thought he was in the 2005 contract". I guess I shouldnt have bought the big house and put my kids in private school when this 5 year contract turned into a 2 year contract. I appreciate the hard work of all involved, I'm just really dissapointed.

 

[jonjuan]

I"m a 14 year class 4 guy and I have to be honest when I say I"m just not feelin the love.

Our leadership going into this IBB stated and RE-stated how important it was to secure higher, more competitve salaries for first officers and the most senior captains. The first officers scored big.

The 14 year+ guys were not just overlooked, we were sacrificed. I understand business and demographics, but understandably this feels like a really hard punch to the gut considering how long we long haulers have been waiting for this job to "pay off". My no vote really won't matter much considering the large amount of people this proposal will benefit. The hardest thing for me right now is trying to figure out how I explain to my family that "daddy isn't going to make the money he thought he was in the 2005 contract". I guess I shouldnt have bought the big house and put my kids in private school when this 5 year contract turned into a 2 year contract. I appreciate the hard work of all involved, I'm just really dissapointed.

Why on earth would they give you more money/benefits when they don't have to? It's not as though you are going anywhere.
The ONLY point of this is to reduce attrition and keep new hires flowing in. Period. rick santulli has won. Buffet would be proud.

 

[SwissAviator]

This is not a question meant to instigate, it is just curiosity. How much were you expecting for 14 yr pay in the new TA?

Thanks

 

[FLYLOW22]

With any new contract there is an agreed to implimentation schedule for certain sections (basing, bonus, pay, etc). Pay is usually the easiest to impliment. Work rules involving scheduling take more time due to training issues.

I'd say the new rules would take tread ASAP.

I am also predicting a PASS on this TA. My guess: 85%.

Why so high? I'm picky. I'm very picky. Did I get everything I wanted? Never. Do I recognize a good deal when I see it? Oh yes.

 

[FLYLOW22]

This is not a question meant to instigate, it is just curiosity. How much were you expecting for 14 yr pay in the new TA?

Thanks

The highest? Someone put together a payscale for year 14 that includes a 4% bonus for being a year 15 seniority or higher pilot. I believe it involved some PTO (Personal Time Off) sell back as well.

The number I saw was $182,000 base salary BEFORE holiday, OT and extended days. That is easily another 20K-40K.

All airplanes except the BBJ pay the same.

Not bad for flying an Encore around... Hell... That's not bad for flying a Falcon around.

 

[Mach92]

I"m a 14 year class 4 guy and I have to be honest when I say I"m just not feelin the love.

Our leadership going into this IBB stated and RE-stated how important it was to secure higher, more competitve salaries for first officers and the most senior captains. The first officers scored big.

The 14 year+ guys were not just overlooked, we were sacrificed. I understand business and demographics, but understandably this feels like a really hard punch to the gut considering how long we long haulers have been waiting for this job to "pay off". My no vote really won't matter much considering the large amount of people this proposal will benefit. The hardest thing for me right now is trying to figure out how I explain to my family that "daddy isn't going to make the money he thought he was in the 2005 contract". I guess I shouldnt have bought the big house and put my kids in private school when this 5 year contract turned into a 2 year contract. I appreciate the hard work of all involved, I'm just really dissapointed.

If the MEC Chairman is not losing money in the EZ tell me how you are? Also if you are one of the few that got into the plane early there will be a LOA to protect your wage.

 

[Mach92]

If it passes when does it become active, ie the basing options?

Pay the next day

Basing is set for DEC 1

15 and 18 day into 2008. Until that time the current RSV with "H"days will be in affect with higher pay rates.

This is all if ratified

 

[CastofThousands]

18 Day Fixed Schedule with 4 weeks of vacation and 12 Personal Days (which can be an additional 5th week of vacation with 5 sick days or 5 sick days where 7 days can be sold back at 110% of the normal daily rate - this is not included in the numbers provided below - I assume 5 weeks of vacation totaling 181 workdays a year which is less than a total 7&7 182 days a year):

15 Years of Service
~14th Service Year Base Wage with 15th Service Year 4% Annual Bonus: $173,132
~14th Service Year Base Wage plus 15% for OT, Holidays, etc and the 15th Service Year 4% bonus: $198,103 (2008 through 2012)

~Possible bargaining Jan 2013. If the Company exercises the 3 year option:

~The above with 2013 projected 3% CPI-U adjustment: $203,846
~The above with 2014 compounded 3% CPI-U adjustment: $216,620
~The above with 2015 compounded 3% CPI-U adjustment: $222,919
~Bargaining starts no later than May 2014

Under the IBB proposal every NetJets pilot captures this option as a Captain (560, 400, XL/XLS, 680, 800/900, X, 200, 2000, 4000, and the like).

Make an approx. 20% reduction for the 7&7 schedule and a 10% reduction for the 15 day flex schedule.

Cheers,

 

[Just Peachy]

Ibb passing.............

Hey Falcon guy..... Im with you, its a no vote for me...just waaay to many givebacks to the company. the noobies scored really big and the rest of us get the crumbs. Most of us realize they need it but at our big time expense????

We put a lot of time in getting to where we are now and I feel working this thing out over a longer time would benifit all, but alas, they need to rush it through now for some reason

 

[netjetwife]

I've noticed that senior pilots complaining about getting left out in the IBB proposal usually fail to mention the $25,000 signing bonus, $10,000 longevity bonus, and the 4% annual bonuses. That is on top of excellent benefits. Many pilots would be quite happy to trade places and would consider themselves lucky to be so "ignored"...

 

[NJA Capt]

I've noticed that senior pilots complaining about getting left out in the IBB proposal usually fail to mention the $25,000 signing bonus, $10,000 longevity bonus, and the 4% annual bonuses.

Let's see: For the duration of the contract, a 12 Year 7/7 Captain will see an additional $15K (with a pay cut for the last 4 years. A newhire FO will see an additional $158K. I'll let you rethink that bonus money idea.

The senior guys aren't blinded by the neon lights of the pay and the domiciles. They are looking beyond those things at the "bigger picture" if you will. Some of us aren't in the 14+ range yet, but we will be when the end of the contract rolls around. $25k isn't going far to offset the loss of retiree medical and the dozens of other givebacks.

You have to ask yourself if the pay and the bases were not part of the equation, would you still vote to approve it? I doubt it. Remember, one day the junior guys will be the senior guys. The benefits we give up will be your own.

Less than 78% turnout
Less than 65% if it passes

 

[hopalong]

I bet at least 75% pass.

 

[T-1GUY]

Think of this TA as a catch up for the FO's. It would seem some greedy falcon pilots left us out in the cold during the 2005 CBA. If I here one more guy bitch about how he got left out in the cold while he is making $150K plus easy I will scream. I know.. I know.. we didn't walk the line in 2005 in the snow up hill both ways... Give me a Fu**ing break with your whining....

 

[Diesel]

Give me a Fu**ing break with your whining....

Then T-1 Give us a break with your bitching about having to commute to your domicle and the pay.... Both of which you knew about BEFORE coming here.

The rules didn't change on you. You just don't like the rules.

100 percent pass if NJW had her way.

62 to 68% pass is my over under.

 

[T-1GUY]

Nevermind..

 

[Dr Pepper]

I'll bet that all but 4 Falcon PICs vote no. Some will brainwash 1 or 2 Falcon SICs to vote their way. The majority of the rest of the FOs will vote yes, another me vote, because they cannot afford not too. The real vote will be decided by the rest of the pilot group. Reserve PICs might do more fence sitting and lean towards no. My guess is a low passing margin of 57% yeah, 40% neigh, 3% no vote.

Does anyone know why the timeline says on or about 20 Nov? Why is the date not definitive?

 

[FLYLOW22]

Hey Falcon guy..... Im with you, its a no vote for me...just waaay to many givebacks to the company. the noobies scored really big and the rest of us get the crumbs. Most of us realize they need it but at our big time expense????

I've never been accused of being hasty or stupid. I just don't see the give backs.

For my sake.... please list the many givebacks for me to review.

I just don't see the overall loss. Help me help you help me...

 

[Fozzy]

and the dozens of other givebacks.

Lets hear them. Give me 13.
Edit. You said dozens. Give me 24.

 

[ce750drvr]

Then T-1 Give us a break with your bitching about having to commute to your domicle and the pay.... Both of which you knew about BEFORE coming here.

The rules didn't change on you. You just don't like the rules.

100 percent pass if NJW had her way.

62 to 68% pass is my over under.

Agreed. If I hear one more guy bitch about the commute or pay, I'm gonna f*ckin break somebody. I drove 6.5 hours one way for 5 years and started out at $27,108. But I knew what I was getting into and dealt with it. BO said himself that we should discuss it with our family and vote what is best for us. Therefore making it a "I" vote. So that is what I'm going to do. I'm going to vote what is best for ME AND MY FAMILY. "I", "ME", not anyone else. I'm tired of being frowned upon for not being a "team player" or what is best for the group. Bite me, what is best for "you" might not be best for "me"