NJA STRONG UNION NEGOTIATOR'S SUMMARY--Part 3

[CapnVegetto]

See, the thing about CEO's is this: It is all about THEM. You think pilots have egos? We aint sh1t compared to these guys in that department. They do not dwell on loyalty or camaraderie or "right" and "wrong" like you and I. They WILL sacrifice a company knowing full well that they can take their Harvard law degree anywhere they so choose after the dust clears. And they will sleep like baby the night after.

I agree. 100%. Most are scum....period. I'd be willing to bet that everyone that has the power to do something about this situation has a golden parachute so thick that they'd never hit the ground. Do they give a crap if the company goes out of business? Heck no, they're rich. They'll never have to work another day in their life.

There oughta be some kind of law against it.

 

[flyjetspeed]

I have to agree with the ego part as it applies to CEO's. I have been on first name basis, as a pilot, with 8 of them in my lifetime and to a man they were all disconnected from the company they ran in some way. It may not be possible to run a company the same as when it was started ,once it reaches a certain size. Crossing the Chasm has been referenced here and has many lessons for NJ et. al., as it appears we are at that Chasm. As a cautionary note to the union leadership, do not underestimate the impact that "face" has in these events. Everyone at the table is concerned with "face" and will preserve it at almost all costs. This is true of the players on both sides of the table. The trick is to reach an agreement while preseving "face" for the pertinant parties involved.

 

[TheTruthCMH]

The trick is to reach an agreement while preseving "face" for the pertinant parties involved.

"And the TRUTH, shall set you free!"

The Truth Hurts

TTC

 

[Diesel]

dude the truth hurts thing is pretty annoying

 

[TheTruthCMH]

dude the truth hurts thing is pretty annoying

Gosh, you mean like STFD?

The Truth Hurts Diesel

TTC

 

[Ultra Grump]

They are willing to spend more to break the pilots than actually just pay them.

Someone in NJA management must must have really liked how that went over at Comair, when the contract improvements the pilots wanted cost something like $400 million (maybe a Comair guy can help with the exact figures), but Comair/Delta management preferred to lose $760 million during the strike over paying the pilots.

Real smart.


To all the "company men" here:

You all seem to be under the impression that both offers (union and company) were the "last, best, and final" offers. They most assuredly were not. The problem lies in the fact that when the company negotiators came back to the table last Monday with essentially no movement from any previous offer, that meant there was no longer any "negotiating" happening.

According to Merriam-Webster dictionary - Negotiate: to arrange for or bring about through conference, discussion, and compromise.

There was conference and discussion, but no compromise. I am under no illusion that what the union offered is what we will end up with. But it surely will not be what the company offered, either. The problem lies in the company's unwillingness to make a reasonable, progressive offer. Had they responded with some movement, I'm sure we would have done the same. They didn't. They responded with a plan that was in many cases regressive from the failed TA. So we walked.

I will believe that the company truly believes an offer is fair and within their ability to pay when they say it's their "last, best, and final" offer. Then we will see what the pilot group thinks about it. Until then, we armchair QBs (and especially you, who have no vote and no say) are really all just wasting time.

I for one have wasted too much time here on this subject already. I will leave you all to it. We'll see how it shakes out.

 

[Publishers]

Can we get some kind of wager as to whether this subject and thread will ever end or will this still be debated a year from now.

 

[squonk]

Troll:

the Company put a good package on the table and will not put the Company at risk for unrealistic demands

The company's "package" is regresive in so many respects. Have you actually compared some of the percentile rates? I doubt it. Just spewing the company line.

I will be taking a pay cut if I accept this dog.

the Company would not put the future of the entire organization at risk. Every employee thanks them and supports their efforts to give the pilots a good raise.

Oh I disagree sir. The company is surely putting the organization at risk. Just look at the number of owners leaving in droves. Tell your leaders to right this ship.

The trainwreck may be coming but what you want to ask yourself is what direction is it headed? It is headed towared IBT1108.

.

Ha. You wish. Please tell us what trainwreck will befall 1108.

 

[squonk]

Troll:

Olsen’s goal is to unionize all fractionals and he can’t unless he brings in the hefty promises that he has made. If he can’t do that, his career as a Union Leader is limited. Any politician who does not fulfill his promise is a lame duck.

So what is his plan? To ruin the business. Kill it one piece at a time. Just like Eastern Airlines. Remember the song, “We got our pilots the highest paid salary in the industry, and they went bankrupt not long after.” This management has said that they will not put the business at risk, and committing to the level of labor concessions demanded by the Union would be fatal. I am sure that the majority of employees and pilots do not want to kill the company. But you would never know it by the rhetoric of your Union Leaders.

Gentlemen the ball is in your court. You can come back to the table or you may find yourself out in the cold.

Good grief where do you start?

So now the ploy is to tear down Olsen? First it was Gasta with you, now O. I got news for you Troll...it ain't happening!

Management has put this business at risk. They have lost focus of what is most important in this industry. People. The people we serve and the people that are doing the front line serving.

Just had an owner yesterday that ragged this company from the time we shook hands. He was a nice guy, but has been put off with lies and half truths coming from your side of the fence. How do we bring him back into the fold? From our perspective it seems you don't care about that owner. More importantly, HE doesn't think YOU care about him. The giant egos in B-way better start paying attention, because someone will and already has started doing this job better.

By the way, I never heard your song either. More lies from Bway?

 

[squonk]

You're right:

However, knowing there are "two corners", the MEC in one corner, and Buffett/RTS in the other, I'm glad to be in the $43 billion dollar corner. Again, make no mistake, there will be a lot of pain for ALL involved; for the Pilots, BWY employees, Owners, but RTS will never "give in" to the thug mentality that seems to have overcome the "new guard".

Yes, it may be "ego" at this point, but with that backing, he has the staying power

Thanks for making our point.

Tell Richie if he would just share some of that "backing", we wouldn't be in this mess.

 

[FAcFriend]

Troll:



The company's "package" is regresive in so many respects. Have you actually compared some of the percentile rates? I doubt it. Just spewing the company line.

I will be taking a pay cut if I accept this dog.


.

Sqonk, tell the rest of the story- NOONE would be left behind in the new offer. There were a few, that did not fit into the chart- not many,1-2%, and company was offering them an increase as well.

Let us all remember this is a Base salary increase. It is not expected to replace your OT pay, your contract violations pay, etc. Compare base to base. Yes, squonk a few were out of the grid, but they were not going to be left behind.

 

[squonk]

Where the company is trying to pull a fast one is the top tier pay they are touting. There is no one in that percentile for the big money they are telling you about. The meat is in the middle. That is where you see regresive pay.

Go back and check the chart. You will see this is just more smoke and mirriors from the top.

 

[FAcFriend]

Where the company is trying to pull a fast one is the top tier pay they are touting. There is no one in that percentile for the big money they are telling you about. The meat is in the middle. That is where you see regresive pay.

Go back and check the chart. You will see this is just more smoke and mirriors from the top.

Sorry sqonk- now it appears your arguments is a moving target.
First the problem was you would take a pay cut-

now the argument is the scale is skewed and "noone" fits in the 80th %.

So lets see- 80%- hmmmm, most shouldnt fit in the 80%-

That is why it is the 80%. I would think, just a shot- that about 50% will fall in the 50% or below.

 

[Starman]

It doesn't matter what the company offer was. It isn't going to be ratified so it's all hot air by the company slugs on this board.

 

[Fracster]

true, true