NJA STRONG UNION NEGOTIATOR'S SUMMARY--Part 3

[Mach92]

A buddy just flew Jimmy Jacobs. HE said OMA is now calling the shots. HE said it's time to get this done. Well no Sh!t !!!!!! Jimmy

The clock is ticking Dollar Bill next move?

 

[CMHTroll]

What a crock!

Mach 92 - you are so full of sh!t. Just trying to mak eeverybody think that somebody is going to come to your rescue. Ain't gonna happen. If you want to predict the future, think like the NWA mechanics did. That is where it is going.

But let's hear some more of your crystal ball predictions. Everybody thinks it is time for the pilots to come to their senses.

 

[Diesel]

This is my favorite part of what news organizations do.

Instead of doing some research or anything like that they say, "everybody is saying you're cheating on your wife." or my favorite, "everybody is saying....."

Instead of actually using references, or putting themselves in front of confrontation they use the line, "everybody is saying...."

Everybody thinks it is time for the pilots to come to their senses.

Who is everybody?

 

[CapnVegetto]

Mach 92 - you are so full of sh!t. Just trying to mak eeverybody think that somebody is going to come to your rescue. Ain't gonna happen. If you want to predict the future, think like the NWA mechanics did. That is where it is going.

But let's hear some more of your crystal ball predictions. Everybody thinks it is time for the pilots to come to their senses.

I don't even work there, but even I can't ignore this. You can't compare the NWA mech strike to a strike at NJA. Pilots make the company run. Can you sell off every single trip for 2 or 3 months and make money? Nope. You have 2200 pilots. Are you going to replace that entire workforce with scabs? Nope. NWA management planned for a mech strike for MONTHS. There are only so many sims and so many sim instructors, not to mention the other regular clients that use FSI. Trying to find qualified guys? Nope. How many current, type rated, qualified, ready to go DA2000, G200, and Citation pilots are ready to quit their higher paying to come work for the pathetic wages BB pays? Ding ding ding!!! The correct answer is NOBODY!!! What do we have for him Johnny??? The pilots are the lifeblood of the company. How well do you think it is going to go if they all walk out? If that happens, the company is SCREWED.

The Mech strike at NWA is not working that well because of preperation by management. It's still hurting them though.....look at the bankruptcy! Pilots are a completely different animal. Without them, the planes don't go NOW. Not when MEL's are due, not when something breaks, NOW. Can NJA take that kind of financial hit? I don't think so. Plus, how many owners do you think are going to be happy with never flying on QS airplanes? No matter how you look at it, you DON'T want a strike to happen.

Think about it.

 

[Diesel]

You know what capnvgetto the company told the negotiatiors that there was enough money to hold out a strike but not pay the pilots.

Hows that for an insult. They are willing to spend more to break the pilots than actually just pay them.

Oh well round and round we go.

 

[CapnVegetto]

You know what capnvgetto the company told the negotiatiors that there was enough money to hold out a strike but not pay the pilots.

Hows that for an insult. They are willing to spend more to break the pilots than actually just pay them.

Oh well round and round we go.

I believe the technical term for that is

BULL$HIT.

And from what I'm reading, you're ready to call their bluff. Go for it and get what you deserve!

 

[String Chz]

That's what happens when an inflated EGO gets in the way of good business sense.

We have found the new "Lorenzo" of the Fractional industry.

A number of owners I flew this week are not pleased at all with the company for non-pilot related issues.

CS now offers the service we once did and many of the owners/card holders realize it.

We are slowly losing our title of "Sucking the Least".

We have lost sight of what this Company's orignal mission was. The problem with the pilots is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[h25b]

CaptVeg,

You are partially correct yet to a large point I disagree... Berkshire Hathaway/Netjets has no doubt came up with a sum that they are willing to pay to a new CBA. Now whether or not this figure has hit the bargaining table is out for debate, somehow I highly doubt it and the IBT probably won't see it until the last hour before a strike. READ ME AGAIN, this thing will not be settled until the pilots get released. The company will continue paying the crap wages until the last hour. Why wouldn't they ???

Which brings us to the other point. Having pre-determined the spending limit the company will use the time between now and the possible strike to formulate the plan "B". This will involve enormous sell-offs and bringing all hands on deck at NJI. The company will survive albeit in substantially smaller form and yes, it is reasonable to compare the situation to the NWA strike. This sends a loud message to the unions in the entire aviation industry that the standard playbook has ejected itself through the window and there's a new sheriff in town.

All of this "shut 'er down" BS is just the rantings of a vocal minority...

 

[Diesel]

h25b- I don't believe its the voice of a vocal minority. 93 percent of pilots voted to strike. I'm a believer that if we strike we have to be prepared never to come back to work here again. That way you prepared emotionally and financially.

I think that if you asked a couple of months ago you would be right about the small minority of pilots that are willing to shut it down. The problem is the company has pissed off the last remaining hold outs.

It's sad to see but i fear they have pushed the pendulum too far. I don't think it will swing back. It's too bad because there is no reason for it other than ego.

 

[CapnVegetto]

CaptVeg,

You are partially correct yet to a large point I disagree... Berkshire Hathaway/Netjets has no doubt came up with a sum that they are willing to pay to a new CBA. Now whether or not this figure has hit the bargaining table is out for debate, somehow I highly doubt it and the IBT probably won't see it until the last hour before a strike. READ ME AGAIN, this thing will not be settled until the pilots get released. The company will continue paying the crap wages until the last hour. Why wouldn't they ???

Which brings us to the other point. Having pre-determined the spending limit the company will use the time between now and the possible strike to formulate the plan "B". This will involve enormous sell-offs and bringing all hands on deck at NJI. The company will survive albeit in substantially smaller form and yes, it is reasonable to compare the situation to the NWA strike. This sends a loud message to the unions in the entire aviation industry that the standard playbook has ejected itself through the window and there's a new sheriff in town.

I agree with you bigtime on the one main point that NOTHING is going to get settled until the pilots get released.

But I disagree with you on the company getting through it all roses. Transferring to NJI and selloffs? I work for a charter company that flies selloffs now. We do enough as it is......there are only so many that everyone can do. We all have regular customers and owners too, besides NJA. Not to mention the fact that they already use Gulfstreams for trips now, they're going to transfer 2200 pilots' worth of trips to selloffs and NJI and get everything done? No way. What a logistical nightmare, not to mention the cost involved!! I just don't see it happening.

My guess is that management is going to drag this out as long as they possibly can, and then when the pilots finally get released then POOF! The money is going to magically appear and they will all of a sudden be ready to make a deal.

 

[h25b]

I agree with you bigtime on the one main point that NOTHING is going to get settled until the pilots get released.

But I disagree with you on the company getting through it all roses.

I never said they'd get through it all roses... I'm just saying that they no doubt have a figure that they feel they can pay and sustain the business model. Above that and they will put the pilots on the street and go on with life by whatever means necessary.

Diesel,

I understand what you're saying but voting to strike is a bit different than willing to see the company and all hopes of ever working there again disappear.

 

[CapnVegetto]

I never said they'd get through it all roses... I'm just saying that they no doubt have a figure that they feel they can pay and sustain the business model. Above that and they will put the pilots on the street and go on with life by whatever means necessary.

I don't think they can, and I think they know they can't. They're just dragging it out and getting low wages out of 'em as long as they can. I don't think NJA will ever strike, just because management can't possibly be that stupid. I have to disagree.....I just don't see how they can make money with a strike, or even survive (see my earlier points). Are they willing to sacrifice the company to serve their ego? Surely nobody is that stupid.

But then again, Lorenzo was.

 

[h25b]

Surely nobody is that stupid.

But then again, Lorenzo was.

You said it, never under estimate the resolve of those driven by their ego instead of their brain...

 

[flyjetspeed]

Does the Pilot’s know the Union agreed in writing to allow NJI to operate separately?

“BM” also believes that all the pilots at NJI would come here and be in a Union. Not from what I have read by some of the “Prima Donnas” on other message boards. He also seems to think that their seniority is greater than those here now! Mr. “BM” you need to look at a seniority list and go back and do the math. Could there be a deal with the “Union”, very possibly, would it be one sided, NOT ON YOUR LIFE!

Do the pilots know there is no threat to them from NJI?

What about some future “Gulfstream”? What about doing “International Shuttles”, anything for us in that? Do the pilots, the “Union” recognize the threat, bet your ass Santulli they do, make no mistake! They also recognize the threat of the impending FLOPS deal, the loss of the BBJs, the formation of Scheduled operations by EJM, and the hundred other ways to funnel money to other “divisions” of NJ, Inc., and Berkshire Hathaway. In case you didn’t see it yet “BM”, the number one issue has changes from the surveys of January to the one just completed, SCOPE is now number one on the list! I think they get it!

Did the “Union” tell the pilots that we would drop the salary demands in they came?

Why yes “BM” we did, go back and read my post again, I know you have it. “10 to 12” percent lower with the Gulfstreams. Did you also read the part about just how many millions that equates to each year that Woodbridge is willing to spend for his EGO? That is 20 plus million to keep them separate, plus the costs of double management, per year. Pretty big EGO don’t you think! And for sake of clarity, it was YOUR SIDE that decided not to bring them here, so back to the cost factors of our offer. You and Santulli may have forgotten that 12 percent of our proposal is a cost for NJI, not NJA. NJI is deciding to have that extra $20 MILLION a year be charged to them. We do not claim that cost at all, that expense is one that is made out of the EGO of the CEO and has nothing to do with us. Please remember to take those annual costs out from now on, can you? And “BM”, does the other employees of NJA know that this waste in double management is being spent by NJI but being paid for by NJA? Get an idea about that “Forensic Audit” we offered. Based on the rejection by the Company, I think you do!

END

Is there any question that the ITB 1108 intends to destroy NJI as it exists today? Or sell it for an extra 12% in pay for it's membership?


"They also recognize the threat of the impending FLOPS deal, "

What FLOPS deal? Is there a merge/sale pending? This is getting just plain weird guys.

 

[Redmeat]

Are they willing to sacrifice the company to serve their ego? Surely nobody is that stupid.

But then again, Lorenzo was.

See, the thing about CEO's is this: It is all about THEM. You think pilots have egos? We aint sh1t compared to these guys in that department. They do not dwell on loyalty or camaraderie or "right" and "wrong" like you and I. They WILL sacrifice a company knowing full well that they can take their Harvard law degree anywhere they so choose after the dust clears. And they will sleep like baby the night after.