NJA orders 50 Phenom 300s

[NJAowner]

Unless an owner really needs/wants a particular new airframe, why buy a new one when you can buy a pre-owned share for a fraction of the price and fly on similar fleets. When a new 1/16 of an Excel may cost approx. $750k and a preowned share with 5-7 years left of flying may cost approx. $175k (or less) it it is difficult to rationalize a purchase of a new share. As phenominal the Phenon may be on operating costs, fo rnow it will compete against pre-owned shares. But hopefully ina few years there will be fewer of those.

Fly safe.

 

[JJET44]

How dare you re-post SENSITIVE COMPANY INFORMATION!!!!! ARE YOU NUTS!!!!!!

I realize that this information was already out in the public domain but it was also released on the CorCom and is therefore limited to NJA employees only!! You should be banned from FI.com and have your seniority number revoked. I will be reporting you to the union ASAP!!!

Shame on you!!

What's funny is that you just did the same thing by quoting him!

 

[Pervis]

Unless an owner really needs/wants a particular new airframe, why buy a new one when you can buy a pre-owned share for a fraction of the price and fly on similar fleets. When a new 1/16 of an Excel may cost approx. $750k and a preowned share with 5-7 years left of flying may cost approx. $175k (or less) it it is difficult to rationalize a purchase of a new share. As phenominal the Phenon may be on operating costs, fo rnow it will compete against pre-owned shares. But hopefully ina few years there will be fewer of those.

Fly safe.

Embraer is relieving us of 25 out of 32 remaining CE560s, starting this December. Besides, with that line of thought, why do people buy new Mercedes or Bentlys when you can get it far cheaper in the after market? At least new a/c owners get a new depreciation schedule.

On a side note, if we take all 125 or more, this will result in a net gain compared to small cabin jets in disposal. This can only be considered good news. Although it won't result in immediate recalls, this is a clear indication that we are still in this for the long haul.

 

[BoilerUP]

Unless an owner really needs/wants a particular new airframe, why buy a new one when you can buy a pre-owned share for a fraction of the price and fly on similar fleets. When a new 1/16 of an Excel may cost approx. $750k and a preowned share with 5-7 years left of flying may cost approx. $175k (or less) it it is difficult to rationalize a purchase of a new share.

$750k for a 1/16 share of an Excel...that's $3M for a quarter share.

To put that into perspective, in Oct. 2007 NJA made a presentation to my CEO in which their acquisition price for a quarter share in an Ultra, none of which were anywhere close to being "new", was $2.2M.

 

[RJ Bum]

Embraer is relieving us of 25 out of 32 remaining CE560s, starting this December. Besides, with that line of thought, why do people buy new Mercedes or Bentlys when you can get it far cheaper in the after market? At least new a/c owners get a new depreciation schedule.

On a side note, if we take all 125 or more, this will result in a net gain compared to small cabin jets in disposal. This can only be considered good news. Although it won't result in immediate recalls, this is a clear indication that we are still in this for the long haul.

yup, makes sense

 

[FLYLOW22]

Bingo-as well, they'll need to actually sell these to current owners, many of whom simply will never buy a new aircraft/share again. Some will, but to convince many of the ultra/bj owners to cough up more jing to fly the same aircraft (it will take quite a few years before they can guarantee these new planes as they enter the fleet) will be difficult at best. Expect a slow decrease in owners and airframes going forward, imo.

You'd need to know how many share Owners are currently on the Ultra to quantify your statement. I have no numbers but I have seen an effort to reduce share Owners over the recent year. Maybe that's why there will be a small number of Ultras remaining after the initial stand down of the fleet.

Only the company knows and I think they are on it.

I doubt that anyone will be forced into anything. Fleets come and go all the time and are addressed in the Owner contracts.

 

[NJAowner]

Besides, with that line of thought, why do people buy new Mercedes or Bentlys when you can get it far cheaper in the after market? At least new a/c owners get a new depreciation schedule.

Pervis -- the big difference is that if I buy a new Mercedes I drive a new Mercedes. With a fractional program you rarely ever fly "your jet" you merely buy into flying into the fleet. If I buy a new share of a 2010 Excel (XLS+) today, the bulk of my flying will be in circa 2002-2005 aircraft not 2010 aircraft.

In fact NJA is extending the lives of many older sircraft to keep owners instead of forcing them to buy new shares and/or leave. Where aircraft were to be retired after 10 years (after 2 5 year management contracts), owners at the 10th year anniversary are now being offered 1 or 2 year renewals to stay aboard.

 

[transpac]

What's funny is that you just did the same thing by quoting him!

Are we a little slow witted today? Or, is your sarcasm meter broke...

 

[jonjuan]

Besides, with that line of thought, why do people buy new Mercedes or Bentlys when you can get it far cheaper in the after market? At least new a/c owners get a new depreciation schedule.

Pervis -- the big difference is that if I buy a new Mercedes I drive a new Mercedes. With a fractional program you rarely ever fly "your jet" you merely buy into flying into the fleet. If I buy a new share of a 2010 Excel (XLS+) today, the bulk of my flying will be in circa 2002-2005 aircraft not 2010 aircraft.

In fact NJA is extending the lives of many older sircraft to keep owners instead of forcing them to buy new shares and/or leave. Where aircraft were to be retired after 10 years (after 2 5 year management contracts), owners at the 10th year anniversary are now being offered 1 or 2 year renewals to stay aboard.

Also, the majority of owners do not depreciate their shares for tax purposes.

 

[gret]

Also, the majority of owners do not depreciate their shares for tax purposes.

Really?

 

[brokeflyer]

Also, the majority of owners do not depreciate their shares for tax purposes.

hahaha...if you're so smart you'd be riding in the back.

 

[400A]

Not to mention that they can just cancel the orders like they have done to Hawker and Cessna.

 

[206amphib]

Besides, with that line of thought, why do people buy new Mercedes or Bentlys when you can get it far cheaper in the after market? At least new a/c owners get a new depreciation schedule.

Pervis -- the big difference is that if I buy a new Mercedes I drive a new Mercedes. With a fractional program you rarely ever fly "your jet" you merely buy into flying into the fleet. If I buy a new share of a 2010 Excel (XLS+) today, the bulk of my flying will be in circa 2002-2005 aircraft not 2010 aircraft.

In fact NJA is extending the lives of many older sircraft to keep owners instead of forcing them to buy new shares and/or leave. Where aircraft were to be retired after 10 years (after 2 5 year management contracts), owners at the 10th year anniversary are now being offered 1 or 2 year renewals to stay aboard.

Just my .02 here....

It's not uncommon to see owners take a G4 on a trip that only takes 30 minutes. It would be far cheaper to take something smaller, but some just like to show up in the G. Call it pride or whatever...all I'm saying is that there are some out there with the cash to spend, that just want it the way they want it. They know they're buying into a fleet, but when they get in it they want to be in new. Maybe they like the smell? This is not to say that many if not all are being more aware of how they spend their money, but just that there are still many that see it as an image thing....

 

[Mike Jenvey]

We would call that over in the UK "keeping up with the Joneses..."

In other words, Mr Jones next door buys a Huge Limo 500SLKX model. Right, says Mr Smith, his neighbour, I can do better than that - off he goes to the dealership, & drives back a Huge Limo 900SLKXYZ model, & parks it ostentatiously on his driveway....

Same with shiny jets - oh, you came to the Art Fair in a Citawker 690? Darling, we had to use the Falcstream 9x, otherwise we wouldn't be able to get any purchases in the trunk!!

Now to the Phenom 300......

Whilst the "loaded" NetJet specs don't seem to have been published yet, the basic deal seems pretty good, especially for the max altitude (45,000) with low cabin altitude (6,000 ft). For the pax & crew, separate bathroom facility - & external toilet service point! Single point refuelling, rear external baggage access, nice flight deck layout, all looks pretty good. Oh, it seems likely that standard maintenance inspections, etc, are at significantly more flight hrs than the general competition.

Flight test report here.

 

[CA1900]

What do you mean, "For the pax & crew, separate bathroom facility"? I don't think there's room for that in a plane so small. Or am I misreading you?