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NJA orders 50 Phenom 300s

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"In business and economics, predatory pricing is the practice of selling a product or service at a very low price, intending to drive competitors out of the market, or create barriers to entry for potential new competitors."
​
Sounds like free market capitalism 101. You don't want competitors ... so you kill them. If you can.
 
fly4funcrj said:
Unfortunately it's like gm. Gm built crap for so long no one wanted their POS cars. They were going to go the way of the $1.99 hooker. Our gov stepped in and saved them :( Cessna and HBC have built crap for a long time as well. Why should they be saved? Hell, cessna, as mentioned before, started a company to compete against us! F 'em..
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Yup.





..
 
Lets see

Embraer wants to sell a product.

Netjets wants to buy the product.

I don't see an issue with it. If Embraer wants to give them away and make no cash thats on them.

Netjets hopes the Phenom is as good as advertised.

Nothing illegal going on here.
 
There has been a lot of mud slinging by the Kansas politicians about this. Do they have any proof that Embraer is getting unfair government subsidies? Embraer has flatly denied all accusations. I have no idea if they are lying or not. I do know it is election season and politicians are trying to raise a stink when their state will probably lose more jobs now that Cessna is getting kicked to the curb due to not providing a good enough product and/ or a good enough deal. Honestly, even if they could do the same deal, they still don't make a durable enough product for what the fractionals do. Embraer came in and specifically asked the fractionals what they wanted and then went out and did it. I wish Cessna would have paid attention to what happened in Detroit, but so far they haven't and now Embraer has their foot in the door. Hopefully this big order will wake Cessna up and bring about some better made aircraft before it is too late for them. When I was at the regionals I made fun of the Embraers I flew since they appeared to break a lot. Then I started flying Cessna jets and realized the Embraers were practically tanks in comparison. I guess it is nice to get a break from flying when your airplane breaks just about every tour, but it sure isn't good for business.

Even if Embraer is proven to be getting the government subsidies, will it effect anything? Both Airbus and Boeing have been shown to take illegal money/ loans from their respective governments and there haven't been any cancelled orders for that that I have seen. It also took many years of forensic accounting to prove the respective cases against Airbus and Boeing. I highly doubt there is time to prove it before the orders are being filled. Is there any proof that Embraer is going to dump all the airplanes on the market at once? I guess if they can get away with it, it is good business for them (not saying I agree that they should do it). I just find it hard to believe this deal will be killed. Maybe it will be changed if the sabers are rattled, but unless Cessna can roll out a better product before 2013, I hope it stands.
 
gunfyter said:
"In business and economics, predatory pricing is the practice of selling a product or service at a very low price, intending to drive competitors out of the market, or create barriers to entry for potential new competitors."
​
Sounds like free market capitalism 101. You don't want competitors ... so you kill them. If you can.
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Isn't this what the rest of the competitors in the industry have been doing for years, selling the same product/service for cheaper?
 
BoilerUP said:
Why not? Williams makes a great engine...
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The engine maintenance requirements are the problem. I heard it has to do with all mx has to be done at the factory, or something like that. Who would foot the bill for spare engines all over the place?
 
Pervis said:
The engine maintenance requirements are the problem. I heard it has to do with all mx has to be done at the factory, or something like that. Who would foot the bill for spare engines all over the place?
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Yes, Williams International is the only service provider for FJ44 engines.

That said, the engines are NOT maintenance intensive and Williams is the #1 rated engine manufacturer for support despite that fact and Williams can get a spare engine to any airplane in the domestic US in less than 24 hours (I know that from first-hand experience).

Besides, its not like NJA wouldn't enroll every aircraft in the TAP engine program (just like Pratt ESP/Honeywell MSP/Rolls Corporate Care/JSSI/etc.) where there are no additional costs for scheduled or unscheduled engine service to include rental engines besides the hourly engine program rate.
 
CitationShares was started in 2000 as a 50/50 joint venture between Cessna and TAG Aviation USA; in 2004 Cessna bought half of TAG's stake giving it 75/25 ownership and just last year at NBAA Cessna announced they were buying TAG's last remaining stake to make CitationAir wholly-owned.
 
Crash Pad said:
So how do we know that Cessna created CS to directly compete with NJ?
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It would seem that if both are in the same business, they compete against one another.

Maybe you could you either reconsider your question or rephrase it.
 
My questions are posed due to the cockiness of one poster's remarks. We were not there when Cessna joined with TAG, so why assume that this was some sort of conspiracy. The "how dare they!" attitude was quite egotistical. Cessna is in the business of selling a/c, not solely providing NJ with a/c like said poster alluded to. And now 10+ years later, why wouldn't Cessna be pissed? NJ backed out on a 100 a/c deal.
 
Crash Pad said:
And now 10+ years later, why wouldn't Cessna be pissed? NJ backed out on a 100 a/c deal.
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They don't need to be pissed because it's business. Cessna decided to compete with NetJets, so NetJets decides to not support Cessna as much. Nothing personal.
 
Oh boy, here we go with the arrogance again. I don't care who NJ supports, or any fractional for that matter. But to say they don't need to be pissed? Wow, you make it sound like they cancelled a subscription to a magazine. And yet again, I don't think that the a/c cancellation was based on this conspiracy theory of "they decided to compete against us."
 
NetJets didn't cancel orders with Cessna because of CitationAir - they canceled orders because they were bleeding cash in the downturn due to a lack of new share owners...the same reason they canceled $2.6B worth of orders with HawkerBeechcraft late last year. I mean think about it...if NJA really had heartburn about Cessna's involvement in CitationShares, they wouldn't have taken delivery of those many dozen Citations they've bought since 2000...

The bottom line is the Phenom 300 has most of the performance of the CJ4 with a minimally larger cabin cross section than the Citation, inspection intervals double that of the Citation, and a list price roughly $2M per unit lower. With NJA looking at a fleet recapitalization to lower costs, the P300 as their light jet makes a lot of "just business" sense...and that's why I really wouldn't be surprised to see a large NJA Legacy 450 and/or 500 order in the next couple years.
 
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Crash Pad said:
Oh boy, here we go with the arrogance again. I don't care who NJ supports, or any fractional for that matter. But to say they don't need to be pissed? Wow, you make it sound like they cancelled a subscription to a magazine. And yet again, I don't think that the a/c cancellation was based on this conspiracy theory of "they decided to compete against us."
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No arrogance involved. Business is business, and NetJets is free to purchase aircraft from whomever they want.
 
With NJA looking at a fleet recapitalization to lower costs, the P300 as their light jet makes a lot of "just business" sense...and that's why I really wouldn't be surprised to see a large NJA Legacy 450 and/or 500 order in the next couple years.
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The force is strong with you young Skywalker! Not to mention it's a common type. ;)

A couple more points on the order. The Garmin package is going to stay. There was talk that is should/could be replaced with Collins but looks like that was shot down.

There is no APU, but it has an electric environ pack, so with a GPU it can be HEATED & COOLED. Definitely a step up from the 560 and 400.

That was the gouge as of last weeks Comp Rec. luncheon with the CP who actually got some stick time in the 300. It is early in the game so I guess anything could change, but it looks pretty solid from what I heard.

Let's just hope it can live up to the hype.
 

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