NJA DONE hiring for '08 ???

[flagshipper]

Not wishing any ill on any fellow aviators...but am I the only one who thinks the NJ haydays are limited? Fundamentally, how can you pay 400 and XLS captains $115,000 a year .

They also pay G200 and Falcon Capts 115,000 a year

 

[Fozzy]

They also pay G200 and Falcon Capts 115,000 a year

What is sad is AZ thinks $115K is highly paid. That is the problem with so many in this industry. I guess they are happy making 45K and trying to pull the rest of us down. Or maybe we should be working 300 days a year for that pay. Maybe your calling is in management as a negotiator. Anyways, the Frac business model is NOT the airline model. But maybe you have been sucking down the uke: B19 kool-aid.

Right now things seem peachy compared to 2002-2003. Not worried yet.

Next, in the past, a day or two would be
rev-ferry-rev-ferry-ferry-rev-ferry.

Now it is
rev-rev-ferry-rev-rev-rev-ferry-rev
You get the idea, or at least the folks in this biz get the idea.

IOE, and weeks off!!??!! Not here, at least not in the last 2 years. Those days are long gone. Your info is old news.


Go back to your RJ and leave the us alone.


edit: this is directed to AZz not flagship, he just got the quote.

 

[AirplanesSuck]

Not wishing any ill on any fellow aviators...but am I the only one who thinks the NJ haydays are limited? Fundamentally, how can you pay 400 and XLS captains $115,000 a year and allow them to sit for 30% to 60% of their rotations...that is after weeks "off" waiting for IOE. This screams mid-1990s when UAL and Delta drivers were pulling in massive $$$...only to see it all disappear quite quickly. NJ is great, but do the simple math...it can't last economically. Save up some of the high comp. in an "emergency fund" NJ folks. Let's hope for the best and plan for the worst. Call me crazy.

It's always good to plan for the worst, and hope for the best. With any luck, we'll all be making $300,000 a year someday again!

 

[flagshipper]

AZ was simply pointing out how in his opinion some of our pilots are overpaid according to NBAA or what he would call industry average but I was simply saying we have pilots who are underpaid for the equipment they fly so a lot of that evens out. NJA is not a charter company fighting for the lowest bid so they can pick up a trip. If customers wanted that then we would not be so successful.

 

[gunfyter]

Not wishing any ill on any fellow aviators...but am I the only one who thinks the NJ haydays are limited? Fundamentally, how can you pay 400 and XLS captains $115,000 a year .

Yeah. Why so low?

 

[AirplanesSuck]

AZ was simply pointing out how in his opinion some of our pilots are overpaid according to NBAA or what he would call industry average but I was simply saying we have pilots who are underpaid for the equipment they fly so a lot of that evens out. NJA is not a charter company fighting for the lowest bid so they can pick up a trip. If customers wanted that then we would not be so successful.

A job is worth whatever people will do it for. There is no such thing as "under" or "overpaid." These are illusions.

 

[B19 Flyer]

What is sad is AZ thinks $115K is highly paid. That is the problem with so many in this industry. I guess they are happy making 45K and trying to pull the rest of us down. Or maybe we should be working 300 days a year for that pay. Maybe your calling is in management as a negotiator. Anyways, the Frac business model is NOT the airline model. But maybe you have been sucking down the uke: B19 kool-aid.

Right now things seem peachy compared to 2002-2003. Not worried yet.

Next, in the past, a day or two would be
rev-ferry-rev-ferry-ferry-rev-ferry.

Now it is
rev-rev-ferry-rev-rev-rev-ferry-rev
You get the idea, or at least the folks in this biz get the idea.

IOE, and weeks off!!??!! Not here, at least not in the last 2 years. Those days are long gone. Your info is old news.


Go back to your RJ and leave the us alone.


edit: this is directed to AZz not flagship, he just got the quote.

The fractional model makes more money when the airplane sits. That is clear. The structure to operate and associated costs within are nearly identical. As you've never been a manager, you wouldn't understand the true financial budget it takes to run an operations department, fractional or otherwise. The challenges are nearly identical.
I've never said that pilots don't deserve to get paid well. What I have stated, is that a CBA is always disproportionate to the revenue of the company, thus the financial health of the company and all other employees are placed at risk.

During those rare times when revenue is appropriate for a CBA, it doesn't last long and the union never reacts on it's own when the revenue and the CBA become disproportionate.

 

[brokeflyer]

intersting, but wrong. Also, that has nothing to do with this thread.

 

[AZ Typed]

Folks...All I was making is an observation. I don't claim to be an expert, just a cog in the wheel like all of you. I have flown less than 100 hours this year, so you are right, my information is not reliable, and I never claimed it to be. Industry averages are just that - I would agree we are all underpaid. With regard to NJ "stuff" - my information is direct from close NJ friends.

It's evident that some emotional intelligence is lacking here if we can't have open discussions on these topics without people looking for anything to grab onto for drama and flame.

No, I don't work for an airline, don't fly an RJ, and don't work in management.

Good Luck.

 

[Fozzy]

It's evident that some emotional intelligence is lacking here if we can't have open discussions on these topics without people looking for anything to grab onto for drama and flame.

Good Luck.

Sorry, I guess I was a little hard on ya in the the opening paragraph. I am suffering from CMH cabin fever, I can not be held responsible for my rantings at the end of the day.:nuts:
The rest of that post stands.

 

[AZ Typed]

Sorry, I guess I was a little hard on ya in the the opening paragraph. I am suffering from CMH cabin fever, I can not be held responsible for my rantings at the end of the day.:nuts:
The rest of that post stands.

Yes, it seems personal responsibility is hard to come by these days.

 

[Fozzy]

Yes, it seems personal responsibility is hard to come by these days.

Hey I pay my mortgage on time!:angryfire

Anyways, I hear your tongue in cheek. I take responsibility for what I said. Might I remind you that it was your post that said 115K is to much for a NJA 400 or XL pilot. Trust me when I say this, 115 is not a lot of money for what we do.

 

[captain dad]

We are still going to be hiring in the future.

The airlines reducing capacity, loads well over 90%, etc... strengthen our business.

Other fracs sales down, ours still on target from what I was told (take it with a grain of salt)

In TEB yesterday had food and static display for the sovereign and 400. Over 200 clients in attendance.

Marquis doing very well.

A/C still on order and being delivered. (no changes)

$225 million training complex still on schedule.

Good luck and stay positive.

 

[RNObased]

Yes, it seems personal responsibility is hard to come by these days.

Hmmm... Now that is a interesting thing to type. You type a post that has bad information in it with the last sentance saying, "Call me crazy" so I did and you had issues with it. Personal responsibility, that is funny.

 

[mt2]

Well, I'm out unfortunately. Got the no thanks letter earlier this week. As I understand it classes full for remainder of '08. There are many still in limbo for contact/classes in '09 including a number of those I interviewed with.

I wish those still "being evaluated" the best of luck. Although I wish I was in their (still in the running)shoes, I have to question the way the pilot recruitment dept. goes about its business. It seems they are the very antithesis of what NJA professed to us during our interviews. For a Company that prides itself on the way they treat employees, they leave a lot to be desired in how they treat prospective pilots. This needs to improve or it will surely tarnish their image. Create a hiring pool, communicate in a more timely manner, don't keep people in the dark as to their status, show more respect for those likely to fill the cockpits of your aircraft. To do otherwise means they'll lose top quality candidates when the job market improves.