NJA DONE hiring for '08 ???

[AZ Typed]

Not wishing any ill on any fellow aviators...but am I the only one who thinks the NJ haydays are limited? Fundamentally, how can you pay 400 and XLS captains $115,000 a year and allow them to sit for 30% to 60% of their rotations...that is after weeks "off" waiting for IOE. This screams mid-1990s when UAL and Delta drivers were pulling in massive $$$...only to see it all disappear quite quickly. NJ is great, but do the simple math...it can't last economically. Save up some of the high comp. in an "emergency fund" NJ folks. Let's hope for the best and plan for the worst. Call me crazy.

 

[brokeflyer]

UAL and Delta fly poor people......Our money is paid by a managment increase of a few thousand per month. I'd have no problem if my doctor said it's gonna cost another $100 per visit.

 

[CRJFlyer]

We as a company make money by not flying as much...owners are under contract so the money is already there. Our salaries are already figured into the owner costs, and if the planes aren't flying we're saving money on maintenance and fuel etc... we still have the same money coming in is the key to the whole operation.

From what we're told, flying hours are down but ownership and marqie (sp.) owners have increased...Remember our planes are owned by the owners, NJ basically manages them for a large fee.

 

[RNObased]

Not wishing any ill on any fellow aviators...but am I the only one who thinks the NJ haydays are limited? Fundamentally, how can you pay 400 and XLS captains $115,000 a year and allow them to sit for 30% to 60% of their rotations...that is after weeks "off" waiting for IOE. This screams mid-1990s when UAL and Delta drivers were pulling in massive $$$...only to see it all disappear quite quickly. NJ is great, but do the simple math...it can't last economically. Save up some of the high comp. in an "emergency fund" NJ folks. Let's hope for the best and plan for the worst. Call me crazy.

Ok you are crazy and limited in knowledge to boot. Happy??

 

[AZ Typed]

RNObased, relax. Why so offensive...worried?

Those are interesting statistics...doesn't negate the fact that in aviation, the good times are cyclical...just ask anyone whose been around the merry-go-round more than once.

RNObased, by the way, I never claimed to have a bunch of knowlege on the issue. It's just basic math...so relax. I'll keep my family off your jet, for sure.

AZ T

 

[Semore Butts]

AZT said;

I never claimed to have a bunch of knowlege on the issue. It's just basic math...so relax. I'll keep my family off your jet, for sure


Semore:

I believe your statement above.

Your airline mathmatical formula is askew when applied to Fractionals.

Have you not noticed the expansion in the Fractional industry over the decline in the Majors?

Using your logic, a cycle in the Fractional industry has not yet been completed.

Time will tell.

 

[Pervis]

You guys are way to touchy about your company. RELAX

Touchy? Hardly. Frustrated though. Another first time poster comes in with rumors. Look at all the areas on this web site and you people slamming each other's company instead of the dough heads that are driving most of them into the dirt.

A lot of the rumors are based upon the failed models of the airlines. Fractionals are completely different. A lot are from people who just love to profess doom and gloom trying to find some way to feel good about themselves, even if that means seeing others suffer as much or more than they are. Yet others love to see their wisdom in print and do the "I told you so...." IF the rumor comes true.

I would love to see a time before I retire when pilots go back to ribbing each other and their companies in fun. And a time when pilots can feel good that at least some are secure in these turbulent times.

Remember, most of us have been through lots of good and bad times, and it ain't our fault. Place the blame and angst towards those that deserve it-the caretaker CEOs, CFOs, etc.

 

[RNObased]

RNObased, relax. Why so offensive...worried?

Those are interesting statistics...doesn't negate the fact that in aviation, the good times are cyclical...just ask anyone whose been around the merry-go-round more than once.

RNObased, by the way, I never claimed to have a bunch of knowlege on the issue. It's just basic math...so relax. I'll keep my family off your jet, for sure.

AZ T

Not worried in the least, just sick of people posting stuff without any sort of knowledge, but I guess it is Flight Info and that that is what is done.

This isn't a airline and 115,000 isn' that much money, really it isn't.

Your math is wrong also I don't think I have to worry about you being on my jet, I'm pretty safe in that regard

BTW, if you admit you don't have any knowledge in a subject why post something about it??? Ahh, nevermind.

 

[sitnresrv]

Az, are you generally an angry person? I thought his response was kind of funny. You seem mean.

 

[c5driver]

Fundamentally, how can you pay 400 and XLS captains $115,000 a year .

Just wondering....do you work for Swift?

 

[flagshipper]

Not wishing any ill on any fellow aviators...but am I the only one who thinks the NJ haydays are limited? Fundamentally, how can you pay 400 and XLS captains $115,000 a year .

They also pay G200 and Falcon Capts 115,000 a year

 

[Fozzy]

They also pay G200 and Falcon Capts 115,000 a year

What is sad is AZ thinks $115K is highly paid. That is the problem with so many in this industry. I guess they are happy making 45K and trying to pull the rest of us down. Or maybe we should be working 300 days a year for that pay. Maybe your calling is in management as a negotiator. Anyways, the Frac business model is NOT the airline model. But maybe you have been sucking down the uke: B19 kool-aid.

Right now things seem peachy compared to 2002-2003. Not worried yet.

Next, in the past, a day or two would be
rev-ferry-rev-ferry-ferry-rev-ferry.

Now it is
rev-rev-ferry-rev-rev-rev-ferry-rev
You get the idea, or at least the folks in this biz get the idea.

IOE, and weeks off!!??!! Not here, at least not in the last 2 years. Those days are long gone. Your info is old news.


Go back to your RJ and leave the us alone.


edit: this is directed to AZz not flagship, he just got the quote.

 

[AirplanesSuck]

Not wishing any ill on any fellow aviators...but am I the only one who thinks the NJ haydays are limited? Fundamentally, how can you pay 400 and XLS captains $115,000 a year and allow them to sit for 30% to 60% of their rotations...that is after weeks "off" waiting for IOE. This screams mid-1990s when UAL and Delta drivers were pulling in massive $$$...only to see it all disappear quite quickly. NJ is great, but do the simple math...it can't last economically. Save up some of the high comp. in an "emergency fund" NJ folks. Let's hope for the best and plan for the worst. Call me crazy.

It's always good to plan for the worst, and hope for the best. With any luck, we'll all be making $300,000 a year someday again!

 

[flagshipper]

AZ was simply pointing out how in his opinion some of our pilots are overpaid according to NBAA or what he would call industry average but I was simply saying we have pilots who are underpaid for the equipment they fly so a lot of that evens out. NJA is not a charter company fighting for the lowest bid so they can pick up a trip. If customers wanted that then we would not be so successful.

 

[gunfyter]

Not wishing any ill on any fellow aviators...but am I the only one who thinks the NJ haydays are limited? Fundamentally, how can you pay 400 and XLS captains $115,000 a year .

Yeah. Why so low?

 

[AirplanesSuck]

AZ was simply pointing out how in his opinion some of our pilots are overpaid according to NBAA or what he would call industry average but I was simply saying we have pilots who are underpaid for the equipment they fly so a lot of that evens out. NJA is not a charter company fighting for the lowest bid so they can pick up a trip. If customers wanted that then we would not be so successful.

A job is worth whatever people will do it for. There is no such thing as "under" or "overpaid." These are illusions.

 

[B19 Flyer]

What is sad is AZ thinks $115K is highly paid. That is the problem with so many in this industry. I guess they are happy making 45K and trying to pull the rest of us down. Or maybe we should be working 300 days a year for that pay. Maybe your calling is in management as a negotiator. Anyways, the Frac business model is NOT the airline model. But maybe you have been sucking down the uke: B19 kool-aid.

Right now things seem peachy compared to 2002-2003. Not worried yet.

Next, in the past, a day or two would be
rev-ferry-rev-ferry-ferry-rev-ferry.

Now it is
rev-rev-ferry-rev-rev-rev-ferry-rev
You get the idea, or at least the folks in this biz get the idea.

IOE, and weeks off!!??!! Not here, at least not in the last 2 years. Those days are long gone. Your info is old news.


Go back to your RJ and leave the us alone.


edit: this is directed to AZz not flagship, he just got the quote.

The fractional model makes more money when the airplane sits. That is clear. The structure to operate and associated costs within are nearly identical. As you've never been a manager, you wouldn't understand the true financial budget it takes to run an operations department, fractional or otherwise. The challenges are nearly identical.
I've never said that pilots don't deserve to get paid well. What I have stated, is that a CBA is always disproportionate to the revenue of the company, thus the financial health of the company and all other employees are placed at risk.

During those rare times when revenue is appropriate for a CBA, it doesn't last long and the union never reacts on it's own when the revenue and the CBA become disproportionate.

 

[brokeflyer]

intersting, but wrong. Also, that has nothing to do with this thread.

 

[AZ Typed]

Folks...All I was making is an observation. I don't claim to be an expert, just a cog in the wheel like all of you. I have flown less than 100 hours this year, so you are right, my information is not reliable, and I never claimed it to be. Industry averages are just that - I would agree we are all underpaid. With regard to NJ "stuff" - my information is direct from close NJ friends.

It's evident that some emotional intelligence is lacking here if we can't have open discussions on these topics without people looking for anything to grab onto for drama and flame.

No, I don't work for an airline, don't fly an RJ, and don't work in management.

Good Luck.

 

[Fozzy]

It's evident that some emotional intelligence is lacking here if we can't have open discussions on these topics without people looking for anything to grab onto for drama and flame.

Good Luck.

Sorry, I guess I was a little hard on ya in the the opening paragraph. I am suffering from CMH cabin fever, I can not be held responsible for my rantings at the end of the day.:nuts:
The rest of that post stands.