NICE Job Continental Airlines

[Captainzero1]

The capt was responsible for this debacle period.

 

[glasspilot]

What the Industry Ceo's have figured out is that Competition is good,
as long as you control ALL the players, all of the revenue all of the assets. Keep them fighting and bidding among them self's

And that's a strong argument to why this is CAL fault. They (along with all the majors) set up the system of getting all the regionals to under bid and under cut each other to get the table scraps.

If you set up the system where it's a race to the bottom then you are responsible when the dogs fighting for scraps hit bottom. This affected CAL's passengers and CAL is to blame for crating the environment.

That said the PIC, Dispatcher, CP's office, training dept, CEO, COO, DO, and every middle manager in between should be keel hauled.

 

[WarnerNo13]

That said the PIC, Dispatcher, CP's office, training dept, CEO, COO, DO, and every middle manager in between should be keel hauled.

I agree that fault lies with multiple parties in this situation. For a flight this late at night with bad weather looming, a paper alternate is not an option. It's flight operations' duty to know before the flight is released, is this a viable alternate? Who services the airport? Are there stairs, food, security, fuel, and in international cases, la migra? If the answer is no to any of these find another alternate where all your bases are covered, and contact that station to let them know they are the alternate. That's how we've always done it everywhere I've worked.

That being said, in the end the captain did have emergency authority and should've exercised it. Flight ops may have been telling him/her to keep them on the plane all night but common sense tells anyone that keeping the pax in a sardine can 'til daybreak is a deal breaker.

 

[CaptJax]

Pilot Pleaded To Evacuate Paxs

Pilot Pleaded to Evacuate Passengers
Transportation Secretary Blames Mesaba Airlines for Ordeal
By JOAN LOWY

WASHINGTON (Aug. 21) -- The pilot of an airliner stranded overnight on an airport tarmac in Minnesota pleaded unsuccessfully for her 47 passengers to be allowed to get off and go inside a terminal. "We just need to work out some way to get them off ... We can't keep them here any longer," she said.

The Transportation Department on Friday released recordings of the repeated appeals by the pilot and her airline's dispatchers earlier this month while passengers were kept waiting for about six hours in the cramped plane amid crying babies and a smelly toilet before they were allowed to deplane.

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said an investigation by his department found that u 22816 for Continental Airlines, wasn't at fault in the tarmac stranding.

The U.S. Department of Transportation cleared ExpressJet, a regional carrier, of any wrongdoing for a Continental Express flight that became an ordeal for passengers who were stranded overnight on the plane. The blame, the department said, rested with Mesaba Airlines, which wouldn't let the passengers deplane.

Instead, blame for the incident, which has revived calls for greater consumer protections for airline passengers, belongs with Mesaba Airlines, whose representative declined to let the ExpressJet passengers deplane, LaHood said in a statement.

A Mesaba representative incorrectly told ExpressJet that the passengers couldn't be allowed inside the terminal because Transportation Security Administration personnel had left for the day, LaHood said.

Actually, security regulations allow for deplaning passengers to be kept in a separate "sterile" area until they are ready to board, he said.
"We have determined that the Express Jet crew was not at fault. In fact, the flight crew repeatedly tried to get permission to deplane the passengers at the airport or obtain a bus for them," LaHood said.
"There was a complete lack of common sense here," the secretary added. "It's no wonder the flying public is so angry and frustrated."
Mesaba was the only airline with staff still at the airport that Friday night.

The plane left Houston at 9:23 p.m. local time on Aug. 7, but was diverted by thunderstorms to Rochester. Passengers were kept waiting on the tarmac only 50 yards from a terminal. In the morning, they were allowed to deplane. They spent about 2 1/2 hours inside the terminal before reboarding the same plane. They arrived in Minneapolis, their destination, after 11 a.m. CDT.

Mesaba is a subsidiary of Northwest Airlines, which is a subsidiary of Delta Air Lines. A Delta spokeswoman didn't immediately return a phone message seeking comment.

Continental Chairman and CEO Larry Kellner said in a statement that he was gratified the Transportation Department recognized the ExpressJet crew's efforts to resolve the situation.

The department released audio tapes of the captain explaining the situation to an ExpressJet dispatcher, and dispatchers trying to persuade Mesaba officials to allow passengers inside. Passengers from an earlier flight diverted to Rochester had been allowed to deplane and were taken by bus to Minneapolis, about 85 miles away.

However, Mesaba officials said there were no more buses available.
"I can't get her a bus, I can't do anything," said a Mesaba representative.
"You can't do anything for her? OK," asked the ExpressJet dispatcher.
"No."
"Because she was saying nobody was letting her off the airplane, letting the people off the airplane and all that," the dispatcher continued.
"We can't — I mean we were just able to let these guys off. We can't get them a bus. If I can't secure them a bus, I can't have them in a closed airport," the Mesaba representative replied.

Link Christin, who was on the flight, said the incident was a clear example of why more safeguards are necessary for passengers.
"To me, the critical issue is not who's to blame, but to figure out what happened and how it could be prevented in the future," said Christin, a lecturer at William Mitchell College of Law.

More than a week afterward, Christin said he's started to think about "the fact that so many variables were at play with 47, 48 people, two babies, and the variety of potential catastrophes that could have happened."
"In reflection, I think it's even a more serious matter than I perceived it to be when I was going through it," he said.

Associated Press Writers Nomaan Merchant in Minneapolis contributed to this report.

 

[jmreii]

I blame the dispatchers for not diverting this aircraft to an alternate with continental/express jet facilities with personnel waiting for this aircraft to arrive safely at the gate and in the terminal. continental/express jet shall alone accept all the blame for this nightmare cause by freaking morons who don't know their rearend from a hole in the ground.

I need to go fire somebody today so I will feel better!

 

[jonjuan]

This is the fault of the CA. If they would not let them out at the terminal, have them push you back, and take them to the FBO. Have them get cabs and pick them up at the terminal the next morning.

I have done this before. Yes, you have to do the carpet dance, but guess what, it is better than making people sleep in a jet for nine hrs.

Whoops-looks like someone mouthed off a little early.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Yeah, I think you mean, NICE Job Mesaba Airlines...

cliff
NBO

 

[WarnerNo13]

However, Mesaba officials said there were no more buses available.
"I can't get her a bus, I can't do anything," said a Mesaba representative.
"You can't do anything for her? OK," asked the ExpressJet dispatcher.
"No."
"Because she was saying nobody was letting her off the airplane, letting the people off the airplane and all that," the dispatcher continued.
"We can't — I mean we were just able to let these guys off. We can't get them a bus. If I can't secure them a bus, I can't have them in a closed airport," the Mesaba representative replied.

I agree from my previous post that the alternate selected by the planning dispatcher was sketchy considering the circumstances. With late night flights there aren't coach buses just sitting around waiting for an airline to call. That happens. After this exchange with Mesaba, the dispatcher should've taken it to the next level and contacted the airport manager, or anyone who could straighten Mesaba out, whatever it took to get the pax off the plane into a sterile area. In addition they should've continued working with the Cap'n to formulate some sort of solution, and never accepted a decision to just leave the pax on the plane. I think the pax would've been happy sitting on the plane hearing over the PA that the Cap'n and flight ops will continue to find a way to get them off the plane.

That being said, I think the pax were well compensated by getting a FULL refund PLUS a $200 voucher PLUS a $50 card for whatever. If I get bad service and a bad meal at a restaurant the managers comps my meal and gives me some free food later. I don't expect a free prime rib dinner for life.

 

[CA1900]

Voucher, my ass. $200 in cash. The last thing I'd want after that is another chance to fly with the same airline!

 

[IXLR8]

I have read several posts blaming the dispatcher for a bad choice of an alternate. If it was so bad. Why did the Captain sign the release? Maybe the wx at the time of the release wasn't that bad, and didn't call for another alternate other than RST?