NICE Job Continental Airlines

[WarnerNo13]

I have read several posts blaming the dispatcher for a bad choice of an alternate. If it was so bad. Why did the Captain sign the release?

The pilots don't have the resources or the time, as dispatchers and flight ops managers do to inspect who will be there, what options are available, etc, etc. I believe he is fine signing the release if the alternate is a legal, approved alternate, and the weather is above alternate minimums. At the same time in this specific situation it doesn't hurt to ask the dispatcher if the alternate will be a viable one to handle the pax in case of a diversion late at night.

 

[WarnerNo13]

Voucher, my ass. $200 in cash. The last thing I'd want after that is another chance to fly with the same airline!

I somewhat agree here. They did get all their cash back for the flight. Maybe an option to take the voucher or the cash. Some might still be willing to see it as a rare situation and keep flying with them for convenience.

 

[Flopgut]

Voucher, my ass. $200 in cash. The last thing I'd want after that is another chance to fly with the same airline!

I think it would be cool if you and few other NJA guys would just stay off CAL all together. Tell your customers if your position flight requires you to ride on CAL, their flight on the bizjet is a no-go. Or, tell them your position flight has to come out of their hours because your too special for certain airlines. See how that goes.

Read the article. CAL put quite a bit of money on the table for this not being their fault. Scale the economies of the two operations and I bet this is a lot more money than NJA gives back for something that isn't proved to be their fault.

 

[glasspilot]

Scale the economies of the two operations and I bet this is a lot more money than NJA gives back for something that isn't proved to be their fault.

You would be wrong sir. I've seen flight hours credited because there wasn't any sugar on board, or we didn't have diet Coke (had diet Pepsi but owner wanted Coke products). The fractionals spare no expense to make the customer happy.

Why didn't the Captain just go over to the FBO and deplane? Sure they would have had to go back through security...but so what? Like I said before, everybody involved should be keel hauled.

 

[GogglesPisano]

That being said, I think the pax were well compensated by getting a FULL refund PLUS a $200 voucher PLUS a $50 card for whatever. If I get bad service and a bad meal at a restaurant the managers comps my meal and gives me some free food later. I don't expect a free prime rib dinner for life.

How many restaurants lock customers inside overnight with overflowing toilets?

 

[Flopgut]

You would be wrong sir. I've seen flight hours credited because there wasn't any sugar on board, or we didn't have diet Coke (had diet Pepsi but owner wanted Coke products).

Ten grand an hour and you don't have sugar? That sounds like it was your fault. If they wanted Coke products it's probably because they are largely invested in Coke, not because of the taste.

CAL/Expressjet have been absolved here.

 

[Ex737Driver]

......Why didn't the Captain just go over to the FBO and deplane? Sure they would have had to go back through security...but so what? Like I said before, everybody involved should be keel hauled.

Ahhhhhhhh, the armchair QB's here are quite refreshing. I'm thinking you might want to call Babbit and give him the oportunity to unleash your vast knowledge and background experience so that the FAA, NTSB, and the entire US national airspace system can run like a well oiled machine.

 

[Ex737Driver]

How many restaurants lock customers inside overnight with overflowing toilets?

How many restaurants go 500 MPH, operate at 37000 ft and have been used as flying missles?

 

[NJAPLT]

There needs to be a minimum level of passenger rights that any airline flying stopping in the U.S. should follow. These should be either Federal Law, or Federal Air Regulations, to ensure compliance.

This would help both airlines and flight crews know what the minimum level of service & safety the airlines must provide at all times.

A passenger bill of rights would also provide cover for the airline pilots who work for "less than stellar" carriers (as I have in the past), as a pilot cannot violate regulations or federal law no matter what airline management wants them to do.

This is a systemic problem across all the airlines in my view, every one (regionals and majors) has had incidents of overflowing lavs, long delays, and passengers who have been refused the basic right to depart an airplane that is still on the ground after hours of delay.

This should be a good thing for all of us, as pilots are some of the most "frequent flyers" while deadheading to, from or during work.

Lets hope this incident finally forces congress & the FAA to act.

 

[Captzaahlie]

This is the fault of the CA. If they would not let them out at the terminal, have them push you back, and take them to the FBO. Have them get cabs and pick them up at the terminal the next morning.

I have done this before. Yes, you have to do the carpet dance, but guess what, it is better than making people sleep in a jet for nine hrs.

Great suggestion!

If not the perfect threat to get some action....

 

[IXLR8]

. At the same time in this specific situation it doesn't hurt to ask the dispatcher if the alternate will be a viable one to handle the pax in case of a diversion late at night.

I agree with you, however what you said above is part of being a viable alternate. It sounds like the Mesaba agent dropped the ball. Too bad for the passengers. What a terrible situation to be a part of.

 

[Flopgut]

Regarding the FBO: The 145 needs airstairs.

 

[lookin4better]

This is the fault of the CA. If they would not let them out at the terminal, have them push you back, and take them to the FBO. Have them get cabs and pick them up at the terminal the next morning.

I have done this before. Yes, you have to do the carpet dance, but guess what, it is better than making people sleep in a jet for nine hrs.

That is the first thing that came to my mind.... FBO!

 

[glasspilot]

How many restaurants go 500 MPH, operate at 37000 ft and have been used as flying missles?

You're right. Because those people were on airplanes they have no right to expect to be let off within 10 hours of landing.

Nice the way you tied 9/11 into it to somehow evoke patriotism to justify those folks sitting on the ramp all night. Smooth...


As far as my armchair QuarterBacking...using your analogy I am a quarter back and I guarantee those people would have got off the freaking plane within an hour...maybe two at the outside if I had been there.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Regarding the FBO: The 145 needs airstairs.

Good point but....
Been a long time since I've been to an FBO but don't most larger ones have portable stairs? Hell at that point I think people would have been ready to use a step ladder...... yeah I know someone would have broken a leg...yada yada ya....

 

[Ex737Driver]

You're right. Because those people were on airplanes they have no right to expect to be let off within 10 hours of landing.

Nice the way you tied 9/11 into it to somehow evoke patriotism to justify those folks sitting on the ramp all night. Smooth...


As far as my armchair QuarterBacking...using your analogy I am a quarter back and I guarantee those people would have got off the freaking plane within an hour...maybe two at the outside if I had been there.

The ananolgy was not to 9/11 but to the security required today for 47 paxs, not the two snobby lawyers in the back of your citation. I know it's hard for you to grasp but there are policies, proceedures, and rules that have to be followed. I'm quite sure there are multiple options that were available past that, but second-guessing is a lot easier from your recliner apparently.

I'd give you a quarter to buy a clue, but I'm quite sure I'd have to tell you how high to jump as well.

 

[densoo]

Good point but....
Been a long time since I've been to an FBO but don't most larger ones have portable stairs? Hell at that point I think people would have been ready to use a step ladder...... yeah I know someone would have broken a leg...yada yada ya....

Call the fire department. They've got a whole group of folks who love to get called for an "exercise" that will count for a response movement. If they have the equipment to get people out of burning buildings and planes, they can get 47 people down from a 4' drop. Added bonus, they have complete access to the terminal building (codes, keys, crashaxe, whatever). Once inside (or even if stuck outside) they'd know who to call. "Hey, airport manager, I've got 50 people standing on your tarmac, please come get them. Thanks. Bye."

 

[Flopgut]

Call the fire department. They've got a whole group of folks who love to get called for an "exercise" that will count for a response movement. If they have the equipment to get people out of burning buildings and planes, they can get 47 people down from a 4' drop. Added bonus, they have complete access to the terminal building (codes, keys, crashaxe, whatever). Once inside (or even if stuck outside) they'd know who to call. "Hey, airport manager, I've got 50 people standing on your tarmac, please come get them. Thanks. Bye."

Yeah! Wow, what a cool idea! That's just so crazy, it just might work! Then, let's call mcGyver and the A team and get B.A. Baracas to jump his van over the terminal!!

Sarcasm off-

Seems pretty clear the feet that need to be held to the fire don't belong to CAL or Expressjet.

 

[Flopgut]

Good point but....
Been a long time since I've been to an FBO but don't most larger ones have portable stairs? Hell at that point I think people would have been ready to use a step ladder...... yeah I know someone would have broken a leg...yada yada ya....

One of the biggest issues Expressjet charter has is finding airstairs. They are scarce. Maybe they had some there, but I doubt it.

 

[densoo]

Yeah! Wow, what a cool idea! That's just so crazy, it just might work! Then, let's call mcGyver and the A team and get B.A. Baracas to jump his van over the terminal!

I got that! eoooowrg! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKvT1laennU