New trend for AirTran negotiations?

[mnboyev]

Sad....all they have to do is give the fellas a warm fuzzy...clean up the gate presence.. reduce health care costs..and give the pilots pat on the back for bustin arse .. Oh..and if they could fix FLL..I'm sure the customers would appreciate it.... Like send the rampies to ATL for training with no replacements..on cruise weekend?..Now there is some good management?

 

[mnboyev]

Probably low 'seat progression' ... movement and growth will slow...why should a FO put up with 60 K for years and years?...If you could snag a job at FedEx or SWA or return to your cushy legacy flying wide body's ???? Well...can't blame em I guess.. sad....If there was a little more love and brotherhood..maybe the landscape would change.. Orlando has their head in the sand and is living in an era of 30 yrs ago.....figure it out please!

 

[FIREMAN]

You (meaning all you "company men") are the reason no progress has happen in the pass. Do you really believe that removing one person at the table would change anything. Go sit down with coach, conference call KG, sip some AirTran koolaide, and let them tell how great things are at the big A. The one person was removed in September, 6 months later where are we? Not much closer, sure some of the fluff stuff is taken care, but the big items are still looming. Removing one person from the table did nothing, high atrition, poor moral, sick calls, and the MEH thing are what is driving the talks not the removing MB.

If you have ever flown with SH you know why we have no TA !
We still need another replacement. The MEH has everything to do with getting the contract done befor April. The company is planing a huge media blitz in April intime for the MEH share holders meeting. A TA would go along way.

 

[fletch717]

If you have ever flown with SH you know why we have no TA !
We still need another replacement. The MEH has everything to do with getting the contract done befor April. The company is planing a huge media blitz in April intime for the MEH share holders meeting. A TA would go along way.

SH Flys!!!!!!!! I had no idea, He's our "nessie". Nobody has ever really seen him we just hear about unconfirmed sightings, mostly at all you can eat buffets. Monday thru Thursday only of course.

 

[jimcav]

SH Flys!!!!!!!! I had no idea, He's our "nessie". Nobody has ever really seen him we just hear about unconfirmed sightings, mostly at all you can eat buffets. Monday thru Thursday only of course.

That's funny.

 

[Ty Webb]

Seems to me, unless the attrition rate is so high that it is impacting ops (which would surprise me since AT pays well and is a good place to work) then to a certain extent attrition means you continually have workers on one and two year pay.

Training costs money, Chief . . . about $22K per pilot . . . so a first year FO is as expensive as a third year pilot. . . . and less productive, since the first three and a half months he's not even flying the line.

And, if all the FO's are leaving, who's going to upgrade? The ones that couldn't or wouldn't leave? Last time this happened, the upgrade on the DC9 got down to 11 months, and the upgrade failure rate was abysmal.

Is attrition really that high that it would impact ops?

Well, they are paying about a dozen 717 FO's Captain pay to fly FO on the 717, and his month they list no captain upgrades, presumably to stave off having to pay another dozen FO's bypass pay . . . so, yes, I would say it is impacting operations.

IMHO a major reason guys are leaving is because the incompetence of certain management personnel has become rather apparent. IF you could work for the next 20 years for profitable, yet pilot-friendly management, then why work instead for a company that seems to think that the only way to make money is by squeezing the pilot group . . . .

People are voting with their feet, and I'll bet that if the company rolled over completely and accepted the Union's proposed pay rates right now, they probably couldn't get it to pass a vote by the pilot group.


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[400ADude]

Thanks for the info. I had no idea you had that much attrition there. Couple more questions. Is this a new thing, or has there always been a certain amount of attrition? Also, where are they going?

I think Airtran has historically had a lot of attrition.

 

[Ty Webb]

I think Airtran has historically had a lot of attrition.

I think, historically, you were deprived of air in the birth canal.

Out of my class of 15, 14 are still here over 5 years later.

I'd also venture to say that all of us were happy up until about 1 -2 years ago . . . . I doubt anyone is now.

The stupidest thing this management has done is squander the goodwill that existed previously. . . . . because they couldn't calculate it into dollars and cents, they had no real grasp of the value of that goodwill to the bottom line of this company . . . so they traded it in for a small savings in payroll costs by dragging out negotiations instead of wrapping it up early, cheaply, and on a high note.

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[400ADude]

I think, historically, you were deprived of air in the birth canal.

Out of my class of 15, 14 are still here over 5 years later.



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Wow. That is great. I'm a little suprised and would like to see the proof but we'll take your word for it.

 

[DonVerita]

This pilot group does so much to save this company MILLIONS OF DOLLARS! Single engine taxi, starting the APU at the last moment, flying at a higher altitude than filed to conserve fuel...

I hope for all our sakes that pilots are not still doing this. Why on Earth would you want to pi$$ off 117-137 passengers by having them sit on a hot airplane just to save a few gallons of APU fuel? We are in the customer service field guys. That means keeping the customer HAPPY from the moment they make their reservation to the moment they pick up their baggage off the conveyor. Turn the APU on BEFORE the first passenger steps foot on the aircraft. At destination -during taxi in-, turn the APU on so conditioned air is ready to be introduced into the cabin the moment engines are shut down. Leave the APU on until the last passenger deplanes -or- external air conditioning is hooked up.

Please Please Please do not subject our passengers to hot, and/or low air movement cabin conditions. We need for them to be repeat customers...not go to the competition.

 

[scar1900]

^^^^^^^^^^^

Maybe he was talking about on arrival....

 

[gearup5]

I just started this summer and we have already lost two guys from a class of 20 to Continental.
FO pay scales need to be revised up a lot more than what the company and our union is proposing.
Since when did we support the age 60 increase?(el presidente of union stated, most recent list of goals)WTF

 

[Citrusflyer]

I hope for all our sakes that pilots are not still doing this. Why on Earth would you want to pi$$ off 117-137 passengers by having them sit on a hot airplane just to save a few gallons of APU fuel? We are in the customer service field guys. That means keeping the customer HAPPY from the moment they make their reservation to the moment they pick up their baggage off the conveyor. Turn the APU on BEFORE the first passenger steps foot on the aircraft. At destination -during taxi in-, turn the APU on so conditioned air is ready to be introduced into the cabin the moment engines are shut down. Leave the APU on until the last passenger deplanes -or- external air conditioning is hooked up.

Please Please Please do not subject our passengers to hot, and/or low air movement cabin conditions. We need for them to be repeat customers...not go to the competition.

We have gate air at all ATL and almost all outsatation jetways. 95% of the time there is no real need for the APU to be on, and if there is one then mine is on.

 

[gt1900]

Whoknows.. You know nothing about me, so I suggest you keep your opinions to yourself. I have a question for you though. How many sections got ta'd when MB was our negotiator?? Exactly 0.. And if you know MB, you should know why. But then again I guess your totally OK with the fact that he has being paid since sept and just went through requall training several weeks ago. Doesn't that piss you off a little??? BTW.. They just ta'd two more sections today.. Yes, a lot of fluff stuf, but at least its going somewhere.. 10 sections ta'd since Sept, and none while MB was the negotiator the previous two years... Like I said, its a start.... And I'm not a fugging coolaid drinker..

 

[Ty Webb]

. I have a question for you though. How many sections got ta'd when MB was our negotiator?? Exactly 0.. And if you know MB, you should know why.

I know MB. He was not the obstacle. The Company uses the most basic tactics there are . . . and that is to personalize the negotiations and to demonize the negotiators themselves, and you fell for it.

.... And I'm not a fugging coolaid drinker..

No, the actual term for the behavior you are exhibiting is that of a "Useful Idiot". . . . and that's a technical term.

The problem isn't MB, or SH, or AP, or even SK. The problem is this 1980's management tactics . . . they didn't work at Eastern, and they aren't working here. Time for Joe to go.


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[IAHERJ]

I walked in a 9 year AirTran captain's resume to our chief pilot here at Continental a few weeks ago. He wants to remain ananamous for several reasons. His reasons were many but overall he wants to have more variety in his flying. He is saving up for the huge paycut as we speak.

IAHERJ

 

[mnboyev]

Group hug man !!!

Just a couple of things..Nobody from my class has left...although a couple of em are looking..mainly the 30ish crowd.. All are left seat...

The Union is US guys...period.!!! Call AP if you want to give em a piece of your mind..... And MB was just a negotiator as is dough and SH..They don't decide what is accepted or TA'd...The BOD decides.

age 60...well.. I think CAPA supports it so we kinda fall under that umbrella in Washington last I checked... I agree that ol Wilson polling might have been in order..but at what cost to us... We'll get a contract before the MEH thing hits hard...I bet by spring or early summer... be safe!

 

[~~~^~~~]

How long is upgrade looking for new hires and just what are the union's FO rates for the first few years?

With the other Majors beginning to crank up, it would seem AirTran would have to be competitive.

 

[400ADude]

I walked in a 9 year AirTran captain's resume to our chief pilot here at Continental a few weeks ago. He wants to remain ananamous for several reasons. His reasons were many but overall he wants to have more variety in his flying. He is saving up for the huge paycut as we speak.

IAHERJ

You've got to be kidding us?? He's been there 9 years and his going to leave and start over at a company that pays 30/hr?? Throw in the 65 issue and that will thwart his upgrade over at CAL. He must be really burned out of the scabs at Valuejet.

 

[michael707767]

Training costs money, Chief . . . about $22K per pilot . . . so a first year FO is as expensive as a third year pilot. . . . and less productive, since the first three and a half months he's not even flying the line..

whoa, I just asked a question.

I understand training costs money. But I have no doubt that managment has figured the costs of training new guys vs the costs of raising your wages. Where the breakeven point between the two is unknown, but you can be sure management has looked at that.

Training costs don't seem to be affecting the pay at the regionals...despite their high turnover.