New trend for AirTran negotiations?

[Lear70]

Is this the kindler, gentler, SK and KG I'm reading about in my Flica e-docs?

Does anybody have any idea what this really means or why it came out?

Was it the huge increase the last 3 months in attrition?
Was it the huge increase in LPR that basically say, "It ain't my job so fix it"
Or was it a large number of sick calls?

Little things like that which tend to get people's attention at the top when it starts affecting line operations.

Just curious (don't have access to the other board).

 

[Kharma Police]

Is this the kindler, gentler, SK and KG I'm reading about in my Flica e-docs?

Does anybody have any idea what this really means or why it came out?

Was it the huge increase the last 3 months in attrition?
Was it the huge increase in LPR that basically say, "It ain't my job so fix it"
Or was it a large number of sick calls?

Little things like that which tend to get people's attention at the top when it starts affecting line operations.

Just curious (don't have access to the other board).

I too was a little curious about the timing of the letter, perhaps the lack of upgrades in March or a few junior FOs going to Delta had something to do with it? At least I know why they won't let me off the 717.

 

[Citrusflyer]

Could they be tidying up for a possible MEH settlement?

 

[gt1900]

Or maybe everyone just grew up and realized all the bickering was like two little kids fighting over a lollipop... But most likely a combination of a little bit of everything..I think removing a certain negotiator was a start. Two much bad blood and water under the bridge. We will see what really happens when they get to compensation..

 

[Capt.LongThrust]

Soooooooo. What did the letter say?

 

[Bill Nelson]

I think it said "F*ck you Scabs," but I'm not sure.

 

[crosscut]

Is this the kindler, gentler, SK and KG I'm reading about in my Flica e-docs?

Does anybody have any idea what this really means or why it came out?

Was it the huge increase the last 3 months in attrition?
Was it the huge increase in LPR that basically say, "It ain't my job so fix it"
Or was it a large number of sick calls?

Little things like that which tend to get people's attention at the top when it starts affecting line operations.

Just curious (don't have access to the other board).

Nah... they're just preparing the "crewmembers" for their year-end $$$ bonus announcement. That way, it won't seem as... undeserved. And then they will go back to normal. They are not, however, doing it because "it's just the right thing to do." There is a reason and, hopefully, we'll soon know what it is.

 

[Eagle757shark]

I wasn't impressed! He spent a whole page trying to explain the Christmas mess. Every pilot at AirTran understood what happened with FLICA. It was the way management handled the FLICA scheduling problem. They came out and blasted the pilots and made it seem as if it were the pilots fault that those trips went uncovered. A simple apology to the pilots and then management asking for help from the pilots would have gone a long way with this pilot group! This letter seemed as if he was trying to justify their actions.
AirTran has a highly motivated pilot force. The guys and gals are a pleasure to work with. 99.9% of the guys and gals I have flown with want to see this airline succeed. These folks would gladly love to share their ideas with management to make our operation better. PROBLEM, the impression is that management doesn't care what we think! This pilot group does so much to save this company MILLIONS OF DOLLARS! Single engine taxi, starting the APU at the last moment, flying at a higher altitude than filed to conserve fuel, staying clean a little longer on the approach to conserve fuel, and so many more things to save this company MILLIONS! To watch the scheduling department burn those MILLIONS with inefficient scheduling and rescheduling. Management, lets start empowering the managers that fly these airplanes and start listening to them. The pilots are vested here and want AirTran to succeed, will the leadership listen?

 

[fletch717]

I think it said "F*ck you Scabs," but I'm not sure.

It only took six posts for Mr. original to show up, got any everglades jokes while your here Mr. original? Hey I've been looking for that dead horse thanks for showing up, While I'm here got any challenger jokes.

 

[Ty Webb]

Attrition drove the last contract, and it will drive this one.

KG and SK blew their opportunity to get a contract favorable to management, and now they are scrambling. The tide is turning, and they know it.

When you have Captains leaving, it sends a message loud and clear. It ain't about the money . . . . it's about the dinosaur management, stupid!


Speaking of stupid- Hey, Bill Nelson-

What's a scab, anyway? Is that what you find on your forehead after sleeping off a buzz in your Mercedes? Close that armrest ashtray lid next time.


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[Yuppyguppy]

KG KLaus Gorsh and SK STeve Kolski...thanks for clearing that up both a bunch of idiots

 

[-9Capt]

This pilot group does so much to save this company MILLIONS OF DOLLARS! Single engine taxi, starting the APU at the last moment, flying at a higher altitude than filed to conserve fuel, staying clean a little longer on the approach to conserve fuel, and so many more things to save this company MILLIONS!

Guess you haven't been flying with me.

 

[Lear70]

Attrition drove the last contract, and it will drive this one.

Makes sense...

KG and SK blew their opportunity to get a contract favorable to management, and now they are scrambling. The tide is turning, and they know it.

Hope the line pilots see it as well. I am NOT impressed by the MEC "PROPOSAL" in terms of pay rates across the board. Good for Captains (not great, just good), and downright dispicable for the F/O's.

Speaking of stupid- Hey, Bill Nelson-

Some people definitely need to get some new material.

Give it a few years there, genius. They'll all be retired and you won't have to worry about it anymore.

 

[michael707767]

Attrition drove the last contract, and it will drive this one.

Honest question for you, not trying to flame, but I am curious why you feel this way? Seems to me, unless the attrition rate is so high that it is impacting ops (which would surprise me since AT pays well and is a good place to work) then to a certain extent attrition means you continually have workers on one and two year pay. Is attrition really that high that it would impact ops?

 

[crosscut]

Honest question for you, not trying to flame, but I am curious why you feel this way? Seems to me, unless the attrition rate is so high that it is impacting ops (which would surprise me since AT pays well and is a good place to work) then to a certain extent attrition means you continually have workers on one and two year pay. Is attrition really that high that it would impact ops?

In December they had more resignations than new hires.

 

[fletch717]

Honest question for you, not trying to flame, but I am curious why you feel this way? Seems to me, unless the attrition rate is so high that it is impacting ops (which would surprise me since AT pays well and is a good place to work) then to a certain extent attrition means you continually have workers on one and two year pay. Is attrition really that high that it would impact ops?

AirTran looks at the cost of training new pilots. I know the last new hire class had to be increased at the last minute to accommodate attrition.

 

[minrest]

Have you guys had any informational picketing events? It seems like you've been in contract negotiations for a long time now. Maybe your Union should schedule some info picketing to take place at MKE. That would get management's attention.

 

[michael707767]

Thanks for the info. I had no idea you had that much attrition there. Couple more questions. Is this a new thing, or has there always been a certain amount of attrition? Also, where are they going?

 

[whoknows]

I think removing a certain negotiator was a start. Two much bad blood and water under the bridge. We will see what really happens when they get to compensation..

You (meaning all you "company men") are the reason no progress has happen in the pass. Do you really believe that removing one person at the table would change anything. Go sit down with coach, conference call KG, sip some AirTran koolaide, and let them tell how great things are at the big A. The one person was removed in September, 6 months later where are we? Not much closer, sure some of the fluff stuff is taken care, but the big items are still looming. Removing one person from the table did nothing, high atrition, poor moral, sick calls, and the MEH thing are what is driving the talks not the removing MB.

 

[crosscut]

You (meaning all you "company men") are the reason no progress has happen in the pass. Do you really believe that removing one person at the table would change anything. Go sit down with coach, conference call KG, sip some AirTran koolaide, and let them tell how great things are at the big A. The one person was removed in September, 6 months later where are we? Not much closer, sure some of the fluff stuff is taken care, but the big items are still looming. Removing one person from the table did nothing, high atrition, poor moral, sick calls, and the MEH thing are what is driving the talks not the removing MB.

gt1900 is a free kind of thinker

 

[mnboyev]

Sad....all they have to do is give the fellas a warm fuzzy...clean up the gate presence.. reduce health care costs..and give the pilots pat on the back for bustin arse .. Oh..and if they could fix FLL..I'm sure the customers would appreciate it.... Like send the rampies to ATL for training with no replacements..on cruise weekend?..Now there is some good management?

 

[mnboyev]

Probably low 'seat progression' ... movement and growth will slow...why should a FO put up with 60 K for years and years?...If you could snag a job at FedEx or SWA or return to your cushy legacy flying wide body's ???? Well...can't blame em I guess.. sad....If there was a little more love and brotherhood..maybe the landscape would change.. Orlando has their head in the sand and is living in an era of 30 yrs ago.....figure it out please!

 

[FIREMAN]

You (meaning all you "company men") are the reason no progress has happen in the pass. Do you really believe that removing one person at the table would change anything. Go sit down with coach, conference call KG, sip some AirTran koolaide, and let them tell how great things are at the big A. The one person was removed in September, 6 months later where are we? Not much closer, sure some of the fluff stuff is taken care, but the big items are still looming. Removing one person from the table did nothing, high atrition, poor moral, sick calls, and the MEH thing are what is driving the talks not the removing MB.

If you have ever flown with SH you know why we have no TA !
We still need another replacement. The MEH has everything to do with getting the contract done befor April. The company is planing a huge media blitz in April intime for the MEH share holders meeting. A TA would go along way.

 

[fletch717]

If you have ever flown with SH you know why we have no TA !
We still need another replacement. The MEH has everything to do with getting the contract done befor April. The company is planing a huge media blitz in April intime for the MEH share holders meeting. A TA would go along way.

SH Flys!!!!!!!! I had no idea, He's our "nessie". Nobody has ever really seen him we just hear about unconfirmed sightings, mostly at all you can eat buffets. Monday thru Thursday only of course.

 

[jimcav]

SH Flys!!!!!!!! I had no idea, He's our "nessie". Nobody has ever really seen him we just hear about unconfirmed sightings, mostly at all you can eat buffets. Monday thru Thursday only of course.

That's funny.

 

[Ty Webb]

Seems to me, unless the attrition rate is so high that it is impacting ops (which would surprise me since AT pays well and is a good place to work) then to a certain extent attrition means you continually have workers on one and two year pay.

Training costs money, Chief . . . about $22K per pilot . . . so a first year FO is as expensive as a third year pilot. . . . and less productive, since the first three and a half months he's not even flying the line.

And, if all the FO's are leaving, who's going to upgrade? The ones that couldn't or wouldn't leave? Last time this happened, the upgrade on the DC9 got down to 11 months, and the upgrade failure rate was abysmal.

Is attrition really that high that it would impact ops?

Well, they are paying about a dozen 717 FO's Captain pay to fly FO on the 717, and his month they list no captain upgrades, presumably to stave off having to pay another dozen FO's bypass pay . . . so, yes, I would say it is impacting operations.

IMHO a major reason guys are leaving is because the incompetence of certain management personnel has become rather apparent. IF you could work for the next 20 years for profitable, yet pilot-friendly management, then why work instead for a company that seems to think that the only way to make money is by squeezing the pilot group . . . .

People are voting with their feet, and I'll bet that if the company rolled over completely and accepted the Union's proposed pay rates right now, they probably couldn't get it to pass a vote by the pilot group.


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[400ADude]

Thanks for the info. I had no idea you had that much attrition there. Couple more questions. Is this a new thing, or has there always been a certain amount of attrition? Also, where are they going?

I think Airtran has historically had a lot of attrition.

 

[Ty Webb]

I think Airtran has historically had a lot of attrition.

I think, historically, you were deprived of air in the birth canal.

Out of my class of 15, 14 are still here over 5 years later.

I'd also venture to say that all of us were happy up until about 1 -2 years ago . . . . I doubt anyone is now.

The stupidest thing this management has done is squander the goodwill that existed previously. . . . . because they couldn't calculate it into dollars and cents, they had no real grasp of the value of that goodwill to the bottom line of this company . . . so they traded it in for a small savings in payroll costs by dragging out negotiations instead of wrapping it up early, cheaply, and on a high note.

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[400ADude]

I think, historically, you were deprived of air in the birth canal.

Out of my class of 15, 14 are still here over 5 years later.



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Wow. That is great. I'm a little suprised and would like to see the proof but we'll take your word for it.

 

[DonVerita]

This pilot group does so much to save this company MILLIONS OF DOLLARS! Single engine taxi, starting the APU at the last moment, flying at a higher altitude than filed to conserve fuel...

I hope for all our sakes that pilots are not still doing this. Why on Earth would you want to pi$$ off 117-137 passengers by having them sit on a hot airplane just to save a few gallons of APU fuel? We are in the customer service field guys. That means keeping the customer HAPPY from the moment they make their reservation to the moment they pick up their baggage off the conveyor. Turn the APU on BEFORE the first passenger steps foot on the aircraft. At destination -during taxi in-, turn the APU on so conditioned air is ready to be introduced into the cabin the moment engines are shut down. Leave the APU on until the last passenger deplanes -or- external air conditioning is hooked up.

Please Please Please do not subject our passengers to hot, and/or low air movement cabin conditions. We need for them to be repeat customers...not go to the competition.