New SkyWest Pay Package Riding Coattails of ASA/XJT

[Thebadcat1313]

Nevets,

Could you please describe the current profit sharing/bonus/incentive/whatever you want to call it program that exists at ASA and tell us where that came from?

What does ASA call that anyway?

Where did that come from?

In 2007, the ASA negotiating committee was NOT in favor of a performance guarantee. We were, however, in favor of a higher payrate (guaranteeing more money regardless of industry swings.) In a good faith effort to wrap up 5 years of negotiating, ASA agreed with Atkin and Co. to take on the "Performance Plus." So far, the money returned to the pilot group has been dismal. We hit all performance guarantees and a Captains check would be lucky to see around $350 after taxes. I hope that answers your question.

 

[Nevets]

Nevets,

Could you please describe the current profit sharing/bonus/incentive/whatever you want to call it program that exists at ASA and tell us where that came from?

What does ASA call that anyway?

Where did that come from?

Is your point that part of the profit and therefore the profit sharing you got came off the backs of Skywest pilots' back?

 

[XPOO]

It was "negotiated" without any leverage and without coffering with ASA/XJT ALPA. It undermines the joint contract negotiations and will be used against ASA/XJT during negotiations. Especially since there is nothing in it that is better than what XJT or ASA already has. You want to help? Unionize so that we can all strategize, share, communicate together instead of being left to be used against each other. We would all be in the room together and not get any of this well they agreed to xyz when they mischaracterized it or put it out of context, etc. We all need to understand that what you do is not in a vacuum. It will affect the industry and ASA/XJT acutely. We all need to understand that we all are one company now and we should work together taker than against each other like Peidmont and PSA do in their contract negotiations. Hell, they even include a separate company in their negotiations by inviting AirW to the table. Can't do that if you keep sitting on your hands and stay on the sidelines while everyone else tries to help each other out.

I could go on and on but that is most of the gist of it.

Yes, I'm sure the SkyWest pilots would love to have a five year drag out of contract negotiations. Unionize now!

 

[79%N1]

Yes, I'm sure the SkyWest pilots would love to have a five year drag out of contract negotiations. Unionize now!

You are dumb! Enjoy your "agreement!"

Oh, and....your welcome!

 

[XPOO]

You are dumb! Enjoy your "agreement!"

Oh, and....your welcome!

No, I know exactly what he was saying. Just figured I'd be as dumb about it as everyone else in this thread. And, no, YOU are welcome.

 

[79%N1]

No, I know exactly what he was saying. Just figured I'd be as dumb about it as everyone else in this thread. And, no, YOU are welcome.

Just how am I welcome??? Your group has done EXACTLY WHAT for any other group?? Mine does all your negotiating. So, I say again. YOUR WELCOME.

 

[XPOO]

I'm just a dispatcher. And you are welcome for being able to join this airline that has gone from being unsellable to the industry leader. Enjoy your stay here.

 

[homerjdispatch]

Just how am I welcome??? Your group has done EXACTLY WHAT for any other group?? Mine does all your negotiating. So, I say again. YOUR WELCOME.

Umm its You're, as in "you are"!

 

[vtech]

So far, the money returned to the pilot group has been dismal. We hit all performance guarantees and a Captains check would be lucky to see around $350 after taxes.

The program was copied from SKYW. ASA's program is not quite as good as the SKYW program but that's where it came from. My check has averaged $824 per quarter over the past five years. Hope ASA/EXPJET JCBA can get that equalized or improved over what SKYW has. If you can, I wouldn't try and demean you by saying you were riding SKYW's coat tails. Why don't we try something less offensive like "incremental improvement?"

Pilot's attacking pilots is not productive.

 

[vtech]

Is your point that part of the profit and therefore the profit sharing you got came off the backs of Skywest pilots' back?

No. The point is ASA pilots were able to incorporate something into their contract that SKYW pilots already had. Unfortunately, it wasn't the exact same program but somewhat less beneficial.

Again, pilots attacking other pilots is not productive.

 

[79%N1]

I'm just a dispatcher. And you are welcome for being able to join this airline that has gone from being unsellable to the industry leader. Enjoy your stay here.

Right. I forgot. Now, go back to the dispatcher board. You really don't need to troll pilot discussions.

 

[XPOO]

Right. I forgot. Now, go back to the dispatcher board. You really don't need to troll pilot discussions.

Yessir, Mr. High and Mighty. Can I shine your shoes for you, too? Or carry your bags? I'd sure love to be your protege. I've always wanted to be a certified assh-le.

 

[79%N1]

yessir, mr. High and mighty. Can i shine your shoes for you, too? Or carry your bags? I'd sure love to be your protege. I've always wanted to be a certified assh-le.

lol!!!

 

[WayBack]

Your welcome, SkyWest.



CRJ Pay Rates
• Captain base rate increase of 1.5%.
• First Officer* base rate increase of 1.0%
• BHO split and increase for CRJ Captains and FOs
• CRJ 700 BHO increased from 5% to 6%
• CRJ 900 BHO increased from 5% to 8%
• EMB 170/175 rate no longer included
EMB Pay Rates
• Captain base rate increase of 3.0%.
• First Officer* base rate increase of 8.0 %
FO Pay Scales Extended
• First Officer pay scales for CRJ and EMB extended from 7 years to 8 years.
Additional yearly increase for ALL* pay scales
• Additional 1.5% increase on Jan 1, 2012
• Additional 1.5% increase on Jan 1, 2013

Productivity Improvements
• Minimum Daily Guarantee for all pilots increased from 3:45 (3.75 hrs) to 3:57 (3.95 hrs).
(Effective April 1, 2011)
▫ Reserves will be scheduled 19 duty days per bid period.
▫ Reserves must still reach 75 hours to “break guarantee”.
Other Changes
• The Company agrees to provide language in the Pilot Policy Manual that will provide scope
protection for SkyWest pilots and aircraft. Initially this language will be equivalent to the language
in the ASA pilot contract. Upon completion of the ASA/XJT JCBA any improvements on the
current language will also be adopted in the SkyWest Pilot policy manual.
• The Company agrees to maintain a PPO health care option for at least the duration of the
contract. The Company agrees to offer health care benefits at least equivalent to those
negotiated in the ASA/XJT JCBA.
• The Company agrees to offer a 401k benefit no less than what was offered in 2010. Upon
completion of the ASA/XJT JCBA, the Company agrees to provide a 401k benefit no less than
the ASA/XJT agreement. (Differences in vesting schedule and discretionary contributions
between the SkyWest and ASA/XJT plan will be considered in the valuation of the two plans.).
• Per diem increase to $1.70 effective January 1, 2011
• Per diem increase to $1.75 on July 1, 2012
• Pilot only Policy Manual
▫ SAPA/SIA split of current Crewmember Policy Manual
▫ Pilot Policy Manual scheduled to be complete by 02/01/2011
• PBS Improvements (Anticipated implementation date of April 1, 2011)
▫ PBS option to bid down to 58.6 hours/month (lowest credit value to be considered fulltime).
▫ PBS option to request 11 hours between pairings in domicile (PBS default is 9 hours
between pairings)
▫ PBS option to put in a preference for composite lines (comparable to the Flight Attendant
option already in place)
▫ PBS default to limit the assigning of two duty periods in one calendar day (a pilot can
waive this restriction)
 Does not apply to a stand-up pairing following another stand-up

Pure genius if you ask me.
ALPA Does all the work, SkyWest gets all the same bennies without having to pay ALPA dues. No SKW pilots had to take time off to go negotiate a contract either.

 

[Thebadcat1313]

No. The point is ASA pilots were able to incorporate something into their contract that SKYW pilots already had. Unfortunately, it wasn't the exact same program but somewhat less beneficial.

Again, pilots attacking other pilots is not productive.

ASA did not incorporate it sir, it was forced upon us. It's a great incentive tool, I understand why Mr. Atkin and Co. want it here. However, to say it's been effective is not accurate. It was forced upon the pilot group because Inc. wants its pilots to share in the productivity of the Company.

The SkyWest pilots did not invent this. Inc. did. I am sorry for the title thread, and mean no disrespect. But the truth of the matter is, that the ASA/XJT pilots are negotiating for you, with nothing in return.

If I may, why are the SkyWest pilots able to keep their health benefits?

I'm not trying to fight SkyWest pilots. I'm pointing out why I want you to sit with us at the table, sir. SkyWest pilots WILL ALWAYS be welcome on my jumpseat, and if you're in my area, I'll buy you a beer too ;-).

 

[XPOO]

ASA did not incorporate it sir, it was forced upon us. It's a great incentive tool, I understand why Mr. Atkin and Co. want it here. However, to say it's been effective is not accurate. It was forced upon the pilot group because Inc. wants its pilots to share in the productivity of the Company.

The SkyWest pilots did not invent this. Inc. did. I am sorry for the title thread, and mean no disrespect. But the truth of the matter is, that the ASA/XJT pilots are negotiating for you, with nothing in return.

If I may, why are the SkyWest pilots able to keep their health benefits?

I'm not trying to fight SkyWest pilots. I'm pointing out why I want you to sit with us at the table, sir. SkyWest pilots WILL ALWAYS be welcome on my jumpseat, and if you're in my area, I'll buy you a beer too ;-).

Are you saying the SAPA Pres is currently not welcome at your "table"?

 

[Thebadcat1313]

Are you saying the SAPA Pres is currently not welcome at your "table"?

Of course not. Any and all dialogue is beneficial. But who does the SAPA Pres. represent, himself? He certainly doesn't represent the SkyWest pilots, Jerry Atkin, or Chip Childs does. I do know that our MEC Chairman at ASA has ongoing dialogue with the SAPA group. Unfortunately there's nothing the SAPA people can do except ask Jerry's permission (or Chip) and hope its ok. Mr. Atkin or Mr. Childs is at the table, when WE WANT a Representative from the SkyWest pilots with legal backing. That's all.

 

[Nevets]

Yes, I'm sure the SkyWest pilots would love to have a five year drag out of contract negotiations. Unionize now!

Who said anything about five years? Do you think the joint contract will take more than a year? Honest question, as a dispatcher, what difference does it make to you? Do you think that Inc would go out of business if the pilots unionize?

The program was copied from SKYW. ASA's program is not quite as good as the SKYW program but that's where it came from. My check has averaged $824 per quarter over the past five years. Hope ASA/EXPJET JCBA can get that equalized or improved over what SKYW has. If you can, I wouldn't try and demean you by saying you were riding SKYW's coat tails. Why don't we try something less offensive like "incremental improvement?"

Pilot's attacking pilots is not productive.

Did sapa invent this program? The fact that the programs are not equal just makes the whipsaw point even more!

Anyways, I'm just pointing out that your pilot group doesnt help the overall situation. We all work for the same CEO, BOD, and shareholders. Work with us rather than let yourself be used against us and maybe you may not be "attacked."

Hope ASA/EXPJET JCBA can get that equalized or improved over what SKYW has. If you can, I wouldn't try and demean you by saying you were riding SKYW's coat tails. Why don't we try something less offensive like "incremental improvement?"

Pilot's attacking pilots is not productive.

Why hope? You guys can actually do something about it! If telling you the truth that you are riding coat tails is deamining, then I guess the truth hurts. Until you guys actually do something about helping us with incremental improvements, I guess you will continue to be "deameaned."

Pure genius if you ask me.
ALPA Does all the work, SkyWest gets all the same bennies without having to pay ALPA dues. No SKW pilots had to take time off to go negotiate a contract either.

I do have to agree that it's pretty smart of JA to play his employees against each other. But no ALPA pilot takes time off to go negotiate a contract. Does the sapa president take time off to "negotiate" your terms of employement? Does management pay him or do the pilots he supposedly represets pay him while doing his duties?

 

[vtech]

Nevets,

A never ending argument. You simply drink a different flavor of kool-aide.

SAPA didn't "invent" the program but was in the room at the table when it was presented and was able to insure some last minute changes to the program which were highly beneficial to the pilot group when the program started. So, yes, SAPA had a significant impact on the final version of the program as did other employee groups.

The fact that the programs are not equal speaks volumes about the failure of negotiations in the last ASA contract negotiations. ASA pilots negotiating the contract settled for less and should not have but that is water under the bridge. We didn't work against you in that regard. You worked against yourselves by agreeing to less than we had at the time. Not our fault. That was your fault. We set the bar on performance rewards. Your negotiations just came in under the bar. That's all on that point. You rode our coat tails on that program but lost your grip before you got to our level and failed to "raise the bar." Sorry, but that is a fact.

We actually did do something and ASA failed to equal what we did. The ASA negotiations fell short. Look at the differences in the program. Let me know where I'm wrong.

The pay rates in ASA's last contract came up to the level of SKYW's pay rates. ASA rode SKYW's coat tails on that one. Take a look. Let me know where I'm wrong on that one too.

Everybody drinks kool-aide, Nevets. Some drink the same flavor you do. Some don't.

 

[Thebadcat1313]

Nevets,

A never ending argument. You simply drink a different flavor of kool-aide.

SAPA didn't "invent" the program but was in the room at the table when it was presented and was able to insure some last minute changes to the program which were highly beneficial to the pilot group when the program started. So, yes, SAPA had a significant impact on the final version of the program as did other employee groups.

The fact that the programs are not equal speaks volumes about the failure of negotiations in the last ASA contract negotiations. ASA pilots negotiating the contract settled for less and should not have but that is water under the bridge. We didn't work against you in that regard. You worked against yourselves by agreeing to less than we had at the time. Not our fault. That was your fault. We set the bar on performance rewards. Your negotiations just came in under the bar. That's all on that point. You rode our coat tails on that program but lost your grip before you got to our level and failed to "raise the bar." Sorry, but that is a fact.

We actually did do something and ASA failed to equal what we did. The ASA negotiations fell short. Look at the differences in the program. Let me know where I'm wrong.

The pay rates in ASA's last contract came up to the level of SKYW's pay rates. ASA rode SKYW's coat tails on that one. Take a look. Let me know where I'm wrong on that one too.

Everybody drinks kool-aide, Nevets. Some drink the same flavor you do. Some don't.

I'm confused vtech. You say, ASA fell "short". Yet after ASA's 2007 Contract, SkyWest pilots got issued a raise and an "override" on the CR7, CR9. Was that ASA falling short? Or SkyWest riding the coattails of ASA negotiations? SkyWest pilots also received a bump in per diem, and annual raises as the ASA pilots had negotiated. It wasn't until AFTER our Contract SkyWest pilots got these things. ASA "falling short" is completely inaccurate.