New Pinnacle Management team

[Flyer1015]

AKA Comair all over again.. and it will end the same without the bonuses

It appears to be that way.

And letting the judge impose would be better?

Sure. One, you know that you are getting full pay until someone else forces it. Not you. Two, Feb 1 paycheck would have been the contractual full JCBA rate until a judge tossed it. Full pay to the last day.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Pinnacle pilots ARE NOT scabs. But 85% of them are cut from the same cloth.

Gotta feed the family Etc.

Surely Its not like your 6 kids would be wrestling each other on your dirt floor for the last piece of real meat in the house while you sit at the kitchen table wringing your hands with worry. Slowly caressing the nickel plated .45 you just pulled out of the sock drawer. After all Daddy can't be anything else but a pilot.

"You'll NEVER.......EVER..... win an argument about pride,ethics or honor with an individual who has none. They have no frame of reference to understand the fundamentals of the argument"

My favorite quote

 

[jynxyjericho]

...

Yeah I remember the picketing, or the "SE goes rogue" maneuver. It really amazes me that both the Colgan and Mesaba reps could so politely decline comment on the picketing while a few rogue Pinnacle reps and pilots could be so vitriolic. You guys went rogue, national refused to acknowledge your picketing, and all if us put the stunt behind us. Negotiations went ahead, even with the side show, and we got our JCBA. Are we pretending now that SE wanted us there after admitting he didn't get a permit that would allow for a full showing? Obviously Pinnacle negotiating committee and SE were unhappy about something and they wanted to embarrass the other two groups for not listening to them, they got it out of their system and we all continued unabated.

As far as you being outed by your pilot group you've tried a million times to rewrite history on that one, suffice it to say, the less you comment on a pinnacle thread the sooner folks will forget it.

Secondly, you are basically making my point about Phil, except you seem to think he was purposefully running this company into the ground. As for if Delta was bluffing, you have your opinion I have mine. I educated myself as best I could, and I honestly don't believe the bluff theory.

Thirdly, I've asked about the possibility of being Comair'ed. if Delta wants it they've put a ton of hurdles up to do so. Obviously, I've said here and other places I don't think we will be around for long, but the smart guys I talk to say otherwise. I can't see the future. I don't think Delta sees much value unless they can sell us.

Fourth, Well, what you were supposedly referencing is non sequitor unless you reject the stated goal by Delta to wind us down. I tend to believe this company isn't worth anything to Delta unless they sell us. We are a failed regional and there are plenty others who could pick up all our flying in a few months from Jan 16.

Fifth, You keep referencing rates, one section of the contract. This tracks well with the tone and scope of your comments so far. Soft pay has always been a huge part of my pay each month so 30bucks might be OK if its paid by duty time- like cape air. Where is the exact line drawn? It's not a linear scale. I would imagine a precipitous dropoff with any lower a rate. For me the second ask was simply a joke I was never voting for, this TA, while terrible, is fine for the extra year it buys. I'm likely leaving the industry until things get more stable so I'm probably not the guy to talk to.

Sorry I'm not gonna read through this to edit the spelling, grammar, and readability, you're not worth it.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

ASA/ExpressJet has no special clout within this industry. However, I'm just happy not to be associated with the largest industry wage anchor in the regional airline sector.

You think you walk into a party and wear that crap you are spewing as some sorta cool-guy badge?

What happened at 9E can happen there too.....just like I thought Delta would never be bankrupt, take 45% of my pay and dump my pension.

Wage anchor? Like you did ANYTHING to earn it??

Your test is probably coming Mr. Anchor, let's hope it never happens.

 

[xjhawk]

you all entertain me. These are not our planes, our contracts-but they belong to the majors. We are just pawns. Those calling 9E pilots scabs or "like" scabs would have thought nothing of our plight when they took our planes just as they took Comairs "planes". They will justify by saying they are Delta's to do as they wish- In other words, they are throwing rocks when they too live in glass houses. If they fly Delta planes or routes that belonged to COMAIR, then they are scabs. If you did not have a plan to block Delta from giving the planes that 9E have now-then shut up and look to your own house-we will take care of ours.

 

[Flyer1015]

Yeah I remember the picketing, or the "SE goes rogue" maneuver. It really amazes me that both the Colgan and Mesaba reps could so politely decline comment on the picketing while a few rogue Pinnacle reps and pilots could be so vitriolic. You guys went rogue, national refused to acknowledge your picketing, and all if us put the stunt behind us. Negotiations went ahead, even with the side show, and we got our JCBA. Are we pretending now that SE wanted us there after admitting he didn't get a permit that would allow for a full showing? Obviously Pinnacle negotiating committee and SE were unhappy about something and they wanted to embarrass the other two groups for not listening to them, they got it out of their system and we all continued unabated.

So much for your unity then, huh? 9E bought your airlines, arguably saving them from a dark path, and then this is thanks they get. What happened to unity? Oh they went 'rogue' is the first I've heard that word. But I do know this, there was a huge push at XJ to make sure TW would succeed as MEC Chair as opposed to 9E's CS. I remember those talks and the "education" attempts they had. It was successful, so XJ did something right.

As far as you being outed by your pilot group you've tried a million times to rewrite history on that one, suffice it to say, the less you comment on a pinnacle thread the sooner folks will forget it.

I just don't care. I have no business getting involved with a bunch of immature vindictive people like you who like to facebook stalk like little girls.

Secondly, you are basically making my point about Phil, except you seem to think he was purposefully running this company into the ground. As for if Delta was bluffing, you have your opinion I have mine. I educated myself as best I could, and I honestly don't believe the bluff theory.

I don't think that was Phildo's attempt, but once he saw it was headed that way, he pulled the rip cord and bailed with his golden parachute. Ask yourself this, do you really believe an entire airline's financial and business model can solely depend on whether or not the pilot group votes in concessions? Leave the other entities (lessors, vendors, other employee groups) out of this. The threat specifically was that 9E would winddown unless pilots signed on to the concessions. How can you seriously believe that your company's financial and business viability relies on pilots passing concessions? Sorry, but if there is one time to STFD it was right then and there.

Thirdly, I've asked about the possibility of being Comair'ed. if Delta wants it they've put a ton of hurdles up to do so. Obviously, I've said here and other places I don't think we will be around for long, but the smart guys I talk to say otherwise. I can't see the future. I don't think Delta sees much value unless they can sell us.

The smart guys tell you otherwise? I guess it's the idiots like Comair guys would tell you that the same scene is being setup for 9E that was for Comair.

Fourth, Well, what you were supposedly referencing is non sequitor unless you reject the stated goal by Delta to wind us down. I tend to believe this company isn't worth anything to Delta unless they sell us. We are a failed regional and there are plenty others who could pick up all our flying in a few months from Jan 16.

Exactly, a failed regional needs to just fold up and go. Not voluntarily vote in concessions which will then be the next downward spiral at ASA/ExpressJet and others. The industry just turned the corner with Age 65 and the ATP/1500 hr rule. Regionals can't get anyone to show up, some are offering $5-10k in bonus money. And right here your group took concessions in these times when they can't even get anyone to show up.

Fifth, You keep referencing rates, one section of the contract. This tracks well with the tone and scope of your comments so far. Soft pay has always been a huge part of my pay each month so 30bucks might be OK if its paid by duty time- like cape air. Where is the exact line drawn? It's not a linear scale. I would imagine a precipitous dropoff with any lower a rate. For me the second ask was simply a joke I was never voting for, this TA, while terrible, is fine for the extra year it buys. I'm likely leaving the industry until things get more stable so I'm probably not the guy to talk to.

A minor deflection, what you really mean is, I'll work for anything as long as I can pay my mortgage and stay current. That's the other word I heard a lot - currency. What good will it do to vote no when I can't stay current for the next job? There's your yes voter. Delta knows there's no drop off, they could make CA pay be $50/hr and FOs at $30/hr (block hour, not duty time like Cape Air) and it would still pass. It's already known that lots of QOL issues make the 9E concessionary contract "better" than the GoJet agreement, and Delta is growing GoJets. Are you really denying that Delta won't be coming back with a round #2 of this crap, to meet GoJet wages, or else face a [insert empty threat here that everyone will take seriously]?

 

[mesaba13]

So we vote it down then what?

 

[Flyer1015]

So we vote it down then what?

Same thing you're already doing, applying everywhere. Everyone I know is getting calls at Spirit and VX. If you apply around enough, you'll leave within a year, which is at least how long a wind down would have taken, if it wasn't a bluff. In the meantime, you'd get full pay. The bribe money helps, but not enough to offset the loss over a year of straight hourly rate cut. Have you applied to Spirit and VX? And tomorrow, Alaska and JetBlue? If you have an ATP and 4000+ hrs, you can be picked up at one of those 4 within one year.

 

[mesaba13]

The judge would have approved the term sheet immediately so there is no full pay to the last day. Have you seen the starting pay rates at spirit? ($39/hr) Captains can still make over $90000/yr at 9E while they wait out a call from a airline that pays decent starting wages. How is what spirit pilots make any different than the contract we just accepted when compared to Delta or United? A 7 year Spirit Airbus captain rate is $120/hr and at Delta it would be $190/hr. Virgin pays $44/hr and you want me to commute to California or New York while a Gojet FO gets my $90000 Job. You can say that there will be a quick upgrade at these LCC's but no one can say that with 100% certainty. Now I could be stuck as an FO at a LCC and it may take 6-8 years to get back to where I was at 9E.

With the exception of Southwest, the low cost carriers are putting pressure on mainline wages by doing the same job for lower wages. Kind of sounds like the definition of a regional pilot.

 

[1.3XVso]

The judge would have approved the term sheet immediately so there is no full pay to the last day. Have you seen the starting pay rates at spirit? ($39/hr) Captains can still make over $90000/yr at 9E while they wait out a call from a airline that pays decent starting wages. How is what spirit pilots make any different than the contract we just accepted when compared to Delta or United? A 7 year Spirit Airbus captain rate is $120/hr and at Delta it would be $190/hr. Virgin pays $44/hr and you want me to commute to California or New York while a Gojet FO gets my $90000 Job. You can say that there will be a quick upgrade at these LCC's but no one can say that with 100% certainty. Now I could be stuck as an FO at a LCC and it may take 6-8 years to get back to where I was at 9E.

With the exception of Southwest, the low cost carriers are putting pressure on mainline wages by doing the same job for lower wages. Kind of sounds like the definition of a regional pilot.

Perfect example of a moron. Your way of thinking is the problem with alot of you company idiotz. If you don't get hired at daddy D or any "major" your stuck like chuch. By the way a buddy of mine on second year pay made 120k at NK. 3rd year FO make 70k+ pending how much he works the contract. ARRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHH geez your such a idiot! Thats why you a freaking LIFER!

 

[gojo]

Perfect example of a moron. Your way of thinking is the problem with alot of you company idiotz. If you don't get hired at daddy D or any "major" your stuck like chuch. By the way a buddy of mine on second year pay made 120k at NK. 3rd year FO make 70k+ pending how much he works the contract. ARRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHH geez your such a idiot! Thats why you a freaking LIFER!

If you're that unhappy find something else, and quick. But I have a feeling your attitude might hold you back. Good luck with that

 

[1.3XVso]

If you're that unhappy find something else, and quick. But I have a feeling your attitude might hold you back. Good luck with that

Trust me I have! Its who you know. You don't get it do you? Are you really fooling yourself? I mean what do you guys need to see to admit that your a bottom feeder scab scum?

 

[SAABaroowski]

I agree with 1.3xvso in regards to a comment about Spirits first year pay. I'm biased because I start there in two weeks. But staying at a place like 9E over going to a place like Spirit IMO is not a wise decision at all. The flow may very well work out. It may not. Flying for a regional has become a dead end job, certainly not a career like maybe it was perceived to be back in 2005ish. If you think Spirits first year pay is bad, take a look at Mesas or Gojets because you may be applying there to stay current while you wait for your "dream airline" to call if 9E gets Comaired.........

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Perfect example of a moron. Your way of thinking is the problem with alot of you company idiotz. If you don't get hired at daddy D or any "major" your stuck like chuch. By the way a buddy of mine on second year pay made 120k at NK. 3rd year FO make 70k+ pending how much he works the contract. ARRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHH geez your such a idiot! Thats why you a freaking LIFER!

Sad to say the place will be shut down in a matter of years. What's interesting is there are posts here about getting absorbed into mainline. Keep dreaming. Home Depot is hiring.

 

[1.3XVso]

Sad to say the place will be shut down in a matter of years. What's interesting is there are posts here about getting absorbed into mainline. Keep dreaming. Home Depot is hiring.

Really? Omg !!! Wtf does mainline care? Calling you a scab? Ohhh wait I get it. Soooo I have to believe what mainline or company says and sworm all over consessions so that daddy delta can say " hey guys he took in a girth he deserves to be given a interview atleast". I think mainline pilot want guys with balls to keep raising the bar.

 

[1.3XVso]

I agree with 1.3xvso in regards to a comment about Spirits first year pay. I'm biased because I start there in two weeks. But staying at a place like 9E over going to a place like Spirit IMO is not a wise decision at all. The flow may very well work out. It may not. Flying for a regional has become a dead end job, certainly not a career like maybe it was perceived to be back in 2005ish. If you think Spirits first year pay is bad, take a look at Mesas or Gojets because you may be applying there to stay current while you wait for your "dream airline" to call if 9E gets Comaired.........

Dude everyone talks the house of ******************** about VX, NK, jetblue but you know what they end up in one of those places because they got turned down from their wet dream jobs. Hence it makes it harder for guys who want to go to those get a interview. Congrats on the regional escape.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Trust me I have! Its who you know. You don't get it do you? Are you really fooling yourself? I mean what do you guys need to see to admit that your a bottom feeder scab scum?

Wow....all this tough talk and name calling from skippy who's got it alllllllllll laid out for us!

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Really? Omg !!! Wtf does mainline care? Calling you a scab? Ohhh wait I get it. Soooo I have to believe what mainline or company says and sworm all over consessions so that daddy delta can say " hey guys he took in a girth he deserves to be given a interview atleast". I think mainline pilot want guys with balls to keep raising the bar.

Please....if it's guys like you....save your "balls" for someone else. You are doing a great job sounding stupid though. Keep that up though...it's really entertaining!

 

[RJLoser]

Please....if it's guys like you....save your "balls" for someone else. You are doing a great job sounding stupid though. Keep that up though...it's really entertaining!

Are you the Bill Lumberg that was outted for not being a DL pilot?

 

[jynxyjericho]

So much for your unity then, huh? 9E bought your airlines, arguably saving them from a dark path, and then this is thanks they get. What happened to unity? Oh they went 'rogue' is the first I've heard that word. But I do know this, there was a huge push at XJ to make sure TW would succeed as MEC Chair as opposed to 9E's CS. I remember those talks and the "education" attempts they had. It was successful, so XJ did something right.


I just don't care. I have no business getting involved with a bunch of immature vindictive people like you who like to facebook stalk like little girls.



I don't think that was Phildo's attempt, but once he saw it was headed that way, he pulled the rip cord and bailed with his golden parachute. Ask yourself this, do you really believe an entire airline's financial and business model can solely depend on whether or not the pilot group votes in concessions? Leave the other entities (lessors, vendors, other employee groups) out of this. The threat specifically was that 9E would winddown unless pilots signed on to the concessions. How can you seriously believe that your company's financial and business viability relies on pilots passing concessions? Sorry, but if there is one time to STFD it was right then and there.


The smart guys tell you otherwise? I guess it's the idiots like Comair guys would tell you that the same scene is being setup for 9E that was for Comair.


Exactly, a failed regional needs to just fold up and go. Not voluntarily vote in concessions which will then be the next downward spiral at ASA/ExpressJet and others. The industry just turned the corner with Age 65 and the ATP/1500 hr rule. Regionals can't get anyone to show up, some are offering $5-10k in bonus money. And right here your group took concessions in these times when they can't even get anyone to show up.


A minor deflection, what you really mean is, I'll work for anything as long as I can pay my mortgage and stay current. That's the other word I heard a lot - currency. What good will it do to vote no when I can't stay current for the next job? There's your yes voter. Delta knows there's no drop off, they could make CA pay be $50/hr and FOs at $30/hr (block hour, not duty time like Cape Air) and it would still pass. It's already known that lots of QOL issues make the 9E concessionary contract "better" than the GoJet agreement, and Delta is growing GoJets. Are you really denying that Delta won't be coming back with a round #2 of this crap, to meet GoJet wages, or else face a [insert empty threat here that everyone will take seriously]?

Unity? Two thirds o the leadership representing more than half of the pilots disagreed with SE and so did national and its our unity being questioned? Quite frankly SE and CS seemed like OK guys but couldn't work and play well with the others, and I was happy to keep TW.

I think you ought to look up the definition of stalking.

In answer to that question I would say no. But you keep trying to ask questions like that to help ignore the reality of our situation and over simply our choice. That's because if I keep bringing in the whole picture your argument gets real weak real quick. Its a fascinating version of history, I wish our choice was that clear cut. The bankruptcy process isn't fair, and it doesn't exist in the vaccume you pretend it does. You try to ignore facts and live in a fantasy land (not unlike your fake martyrdom from the online outing) and I can't come with you.

I've already explained a few times why our bk rates won't mean much in section 6 but certainly there is downward pressure from the pinnacle rates. There is more downward pressure from go jets, republic, and compass, which aren't in concession (is republic) never mind sky west and others who operate for less than asa. Being the most expensive regional contract is tough, I hope they make out much better than us.

You've already written the future. How can I seriously answer your question? This line of questioning is just too comical, but I assumeDelta will run us into the ground within a year yes. I don't see us entertaining any more cuts, they'll just give the planes to someone else, although I don't know how yet because of the wording in our agreement with them. The remaining 900s will travel with the pinnacle pilot group whatever that means. We will find out. Meanwhile we will deal with whatever comes next when it gets here.