New Pinnacle Management team

[Ridgeback]

DL gets all of the 717s by 2015, all 88 of them, and I just gave the set pay rates by then. Your company went BK, don't blame us for that. DL pilot rates were set prior to your BK. Other airlines and investment companies did not come in and offer DIP financing for you to exit, so you get what you get. Remember, DL pilots already took a 47% paycut in the DL BK, and wages weren't the reason for the BK. Since those days, consolidation and new fees have helped booster legacy profits, but your company went BK on it's own, and nobody else wanted to lend you cash to get out. Now you are stuck because of that, not due to DL pilot wages set prior to your BK. Your pay cuts don't pay for DL pilot raises, the extra $2.5 billion each year from fees do. If you want DL pilot wages, throw in an app.



Bye Bye---General Lee

My post was directed less at the new Pinnacle contract and how got there. It was directed at the proud fact your getting the high pay for a 100 seat airplane.

The dry run reference was Delta and Delta pilots could be next. After all airline managements are under tremendous pressure to make more and more money..

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

The way I see our unions working so well with Delta and Pinnacle....All it would take would be for a secret letter of agreement with 9E union reps, Delta's Union reps, and delta. We shall call it LOA "bypass scope". It would include the voted upon pay rates by 9E for the 76 seat jets and possibly even new rates for the 100 seat type plane. I would also bet on a pay raise for current delta pilots. That way they could load up the cheap 76 flying with hundreds of planes but with no scope issues as they all would be Delta pilots.

This is a far fetched scenario as Delta does not have to do this to make a lot of money off of Pinnacle.

AS for Hats and uniforms. You at Delta might think buying uniform pieces as a good tax right off, for me its just something that takes money out of my kids mouths and my mortgage payments. There was a contract that said Pinnacle had to buy my uniform pieces and they skipped buying me a HAT, WINGS, and something to keep me warm. So screw the hats, unless I get a Delta number, then I will wear my sweater and whatever black jacket I want. AS for Hats, I will wear my black stocking cap to keep warm, my baseball cap while flying and that is it. My blue Mesaba hat will continue being my key holder at my house.

Giving us tens of thousands in pay cuts and then making us pay for our uniforms while you get tens of thousands in raises and having your uniform paid for does not give you the right to tell me to buy a bleeping hat.

Idiot.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Barry Wilbur is good people and did not get demoted going there. He actually got promoted with the big sheepskin title that only Haaaaaavaaahd grads get. I have worked with Barry and he did me a solid a couple times in the CP office. He's definitely a ladder climber and no pilot though....I don't think he's been in a Delta Cockpit.

Back in the day, Delta DID ship it's losers to Comair Island when they messed up at Mainline. I honestly think this management team is handing over some prized assets to really get the airline running right and the way Delta wants which means high corporate interest in making it successful, not just playing lowest bidder like GoJunk and the others fighting for scraps.

My change for a nickel from one of those eeeeeeeeevil Delta guys in his Submarine uniform who never looks at you in the terminal. (Joke)

 

[mesaba13]

Finally someone with some actual knowledge of this new management team chimes in!

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Your welcome Mesaba...

I know this Delta Air Elite guy engineered the SeaGrave merger and brought on a whole new fleet and doubled the size and turned that ragtag operation around. Can't say I know him personally, but I think he's the real deal.

When I said above, Barry is no pilot, what I meant to say was, he was definitely on the seniority list and flew a few times (on express I think) and then started his trajectory on the management path. Good guy....one of those who you sorta say "Yeah, I get why he's moving on up!"

 

[JumpersAway]

The only reason PCL is being run by DAL is to leverage lower rates against ExpressJet. Once your role in f-ing the ExpressJet pilots is complete, you will be cut loose and liquidated or parted out.

You are leverage, and nothing more. Enjoy your new pay scale, furloughs, and displacements, by the way.

 

[mesaba13]

Glad we could help.

 

[mesaba13]

I think the chance of getting "liquidated, parted out, etc" is probably greater for you right now.

 

[jynxyjericho]

I think the chance of getting "liquidated, parted out, etc" is probably greater for you right now.

Let's hope not.

 

[JumpersAway]

I think the chance of getting "liquidated, parted out, etc" is probably greater for you right now.

Maybe so, but there is one thing that I won't have to say at any future job interviews, and I thank God for it. And that is, "I worked for Pinnacle".

 

[Waylon]

Sounds like you would of rather see me lose my job with a 100% pay cut then you have to take any pay cut. Not going to happen the TA passed. At least you know a pay cut is coming so start planning for it. Or you can vote any concessionary contract down, hold the line for the industry and take a 100% pay cut. You don't have to vote it in. But I would imagine all the big talkers of Shut it Down will dwindle now that your house is under attack.

 

[mesaba13]

Oh you don't have to say you worked for pinnacle but it helps so much to say that you worked for ASA. Tallest midget argument again. Your at a regional!

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Maybe so, but there is one thing that I won't have to say at any future job interviews, and I thank God for it. And that is, "I worked for Pinnacle".

Here's an idiot who thinks everybody should walk the streets for his salary.....

Clueless youngster....

 

[JumpersAway]

Here's an idiot who thinks everybody should walk the streets for his salary.....

Clueless youngster....

Not a clueless youngster, but rather, a seasoned professional that isn't willing to provide his skills for charity pay.

I'm not expecting anyone to fall on the sword for me. I'm just not willing to bend over and grab my ankles.

 

[Waylon]

First off JumpersAway this is just business. Everyday in our own lives we do exactly what Delta just did to PCL. Let's say you want to buy a new vehicle you go to one dealer and the price of the car you want to buy is 15K. You go to another dealer and they are willing to sell the exact same car for 14500. A savings to you of 500. Maybe the first dealer pays their work force more than the second one and gives them better benefits, do you care? Most people do not they just want to keep as much of there money as possible. That is exactly what Delta did to us at PCL. If we were not willing to deal they would of taken their business somewhere else. We do the same maneuver in each of our personal lives, it's just business. Delta's loyalty is to there stock holders not anybody else's.

 

[Flyer1015]

Sounds like you would of rather see me lose my job with a 100% pay cut then you have to take any pay cut. Not going to happen the TA passed. At least you know a pay cut is coming so start planning for it. Or you can vote any concessionary contract down, hold the line for the industry and take a 100% pay cut. You don't have to vote it in. But I would imagine all the big talkers of Shut it Down will dwindle now that your house is under attack.

I've never understood this line of thought. Just how much in paycuts are you willing to take to keep your operation going? How much is too much? I hear the word "currency" fly around so much makes me think some would do this job for free just to be current when applying to other airlines. Yesterday you voted in paycuts with a 85% yes. What happens tomorrow when Delta wholly owns you and says they need another 10% or the flying will be farmed out to another regional and 9E shuts down?

 

[JumpersAway]

Waylon, I get what you're saying. However, if Delta thinks they can leverage my costs to their liking, they are wrong. I will simply go somewhere else, and Delta can scramble to fill the 1600 pilots needed to fill ExpressJet's void. Between UAL, AA, and USAirways feeders, I'd land on my feet regardless. Delta can figure it out, and I'm sure they will- it just won't be with me and a new wage at 75% of what I am making now. Frankly, I'd be ok with becoming a feeder for AA/USAirways and severing the DAL ties.

I'm still hoping that management at ExpressJet will work WITH the pilots, rather than against them, to figure this out. Find the money somewhere else, because it will not be coming from me!

 

[jynxyjericho]

First off JumpersAway this is just business. Everyday in our own lives we do exactly what Delta just did to PCL. Let's say you want to buy a new vehicle you go to one dealer and the price of the car you want to buy is 15K. You go to another dealer and they are willing to sell the exact same car for 14500. A savings to you of 500. Maybe the first dealer pays their work force more than the second one and gives them better benefits, do you care? Most people do not they just want to keep as much of there money as possible. That is exactly what Delta did to us at PCL. If we were not willing to deal they would of taken their business somewhere else. We do the same maneuver in each of our personal lives, it's just business. Delta's loyalty is to there stock holders not anybody else's.

Yes he kind of knows that he was happy to see us stand on principal for the profession. We didn't because principal doesn't pay the mortgage. We have to live in the real world, and the real world says pilots aren't worth very much because there are a lot of guys who will work for less than us. Even after the TA, there are still companies who work for less than us.

I'm sorry we couldn't do better for everyone, but we got hammered and we lost. Sometimes we lose, and we're going to have to shake it off. Luckily sky west is worth more than the staples in the staplers. We were not.

 

[JumpersAway]

Oh you don't have to say you worked for pinnacle but it helps so much to say that you worked for ASA. Tallest midget argument again. Your at a regional!

ASA/ExpressJet has no special clout within this industry. However, I'm just happy not to be associated with the largest industry wage anchor in the regional airline sector.

 

[Flyer1015]

Yes he kind of knows that he was happy to see us stand on principal for the profession. We didn't because principal doesn't pay the mortgage. We have to live in the real world, and the real world says pilots aren't worth very much because there are a lot of guys who will work for less than us. Even after the TA, there are still companies who work for less than us.

I'm sorry we couldn't do better for everyone, but we got hammered and we lost. Sometimes we lose, and we're going to have to shake it off. Luckily sky west is worth more than the staples in the staplers. We were not.

It's a regional airline job, it isn't that worth it. What happens when Delta figures next to threaten just enough paycuts that you can only pay your mortgage and food bills. You'd pass it saying principles don't pay a mortgage? Just how much is too much? Where is the line drawn? Heck, Delta could have said all FOs topped at 30/HR and all CAs topped at 60/HR and you would have passed it. Maybe not 85% but at least 51% which is all Delta needs. I bet they are kicking themselves that 85% passed it and that they should have asked for more.