New Emirates order....

[uba757]

Which 3 UAE carriers are you against?

Green, he has a problem with general math, geography and spelling!

 

[Green]

.....

 

[General Lee]

Which 3 UAE carriers are you against?

Qatar is not a part of the UAE. The UAE has 2 main airlines, as you know Green---Emirates(Dubai) and Etihad(Abu Dhabi-- the Capital of the UAE). I think some may be confused, and some really don't care.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Green]

Well Sniper is obviously confused and based on the amount of posts the two of you have devoted to the topic you both seem to care. But to be fair it's not surprising that an American doesn't realize Qatar is the name of a country. I had never heard of the place growing up. It's small, far away, and hasn't made much news outside of the realm of oil and gas, aviation, or workers rights abuses.

 

[Flopgut]

Overseas carriers see Chapter 11 of the U.S. bankruptcy code as a very unfair form of state aid that is not available to them. In most developed western countries airlines (and other corporations) either make money or they cease to exist. No declaring bankruptcy, operating for years, all while escaping debt and union contracts. Don't be fooled into thinking we don't have some very favorable forms of state aid in the United States that are not available to carriers of other nations.

Ok, thanks. Good idea, let's not be "fooled" by that. But then why are we fooling ourselves with this: We have to sit on the other side of a bullet proof door on lockdown because the US flag is a bullseye that no other country is wearing. No other country. The people who caused and continue to cause that to be the case share a lot in common with the overseas carriers that stand to benefit the most from it. Why are we tiptoeing around this? It's basically what caused the most recent BKs. Every time some thing happens that reminds us of 9/11, a US legacy's stock goes down, and Emirates goes airplane shopping. Really pisses me off that US bk can be termed an "advantage" by carriers that are able to take advantage of us.

 

[Heavy Set]

Is EK still planning to add the A350s or will they swap them for more A380s?

Also, when will EK begin the move to the new airport outside of Dubai?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

General,

Admit it dude. You want to be the biggest dog in town. That's patently obvious to those on the outside. You spend an ungodly amount of energy sifting through the net trying to find ways to discredit other airlines and prove Delta is the best. Do you stop to sign autographs in the parking lot after your European trips? Tell the kids about all the hot "stews" and the ice cream sundays at FL350?

Yes Typhoon pilot wanted a job back in the states. I bet he had his fun, has a nice sum of cash in the bank, and is ready to go home. He probably can't just up and retire so why not take a job with Delta for the medical insurance, paycheck, etc. But I bet you his financial security is pretty solid. I imagine he has some pretty great stories to tell his grandkids about flying all over the world. Not just back and forth on the NAT tracks in a clapped out old 767. And he got to enjoy being a 777 captain in his 40's, maybe even 30's. Spending 40 years at one company is not necessarily the most fulfilling path to take in life.

It kills me when your main argument is that he gets to be a Captain on a 777 in his 40's....that's it? Really? Nothing else good over there?

It seems you measure a career move by how big your jet (unit) is. Face it, if you or him or anybody else had a better move, they'd have left a long time ago. I know people there too and others who left, it isn't all roses on that property.

 

[uba757]

It kills me when your main argument is that he gets to be a Captain on a 777 in his 40's....that's it? Really? Nothing else good over there?

It seems you measure a career move by how big your jet (unit) is. Face it, if you or him or anybody else had a better move, they'd have left a long time ago. I know people there too and others who left, it isn't all roses on that property.

Bill, you can say the same about Delta, United, AA, ETC!

 

[Varmint]

http://m.us.wsj.com/article_email/S...2219208604-lMyQjAxMTAzMDMwMDEzNDAyWj?mobile=y

Emirates President Tim Clark said it is "laughable" for U.S. carriers to complain about subsidies after slashing costs and debts through bankruptcy reorganization, as did Delta, United and, most recently, American. U.S. complaints are "all pretty insipid," he said. "It would be best if they put their own house in order and put themselves on a competitive footing."

Put our "house" in order? Interesting. I'm pretty sure in 2001 when UAL was a DOW component and $130 stock, the house was in order. Emirates is growing as fast as it can because they know US airlines will get their "house in order".

The US has the most sophisticated military, a space program, dominates world air cargo, and builds the worlds best aircraft. But somehow we pretend that major airlines are something we struggle at? Really, or do we just hamstring them by over regulation, lack of support, lack of advocating them? Seriously, is there a more neglected industry in our Country?

Flopgut....what you say is absolutely true.

but

This is all the fault of the US government and NOT the fault of any foreign carrier. None of these foreign carriers are taxing US carriers at an exorbitant rate or making labor laws so it is nearly impossible to get rid of bitter employees who don't provide quality customer service. It is also the fault of the US government that the same financing options for aircraft from US manufacturers are no afforded to US airlines. I agree and I think its a travesty.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Bill, you can say the same about Delta, United, AA, ETC!

Sure but people don't leave those places because of the same reasons. Usually they are forced out by retirements and furloughs.

You don't see Delta setting up recruiting shows in Sharjah trying to steal away Pilots like they desperately do in Atlanta.

Good luck to you there, it's not a bad place to live, I was a guest of the Emir back in the day when bombs were droppin elsewhere. I'm not so sure about the airline and it's rules (upgrades, duty days, vacations etc.) being so hospitable.

 

[Flopgut]

Flopgut....what you say is absolutely true.

but

This is all the fault of the US government and NOT the fault of any foreign carrier. None of these foreign carriers are taxing US carriers at an exorbitant rate or making labor laws so it is nearly impossible to get rid of bitter employees who don't provide quality customer service. It is also the fault of the US government that the same financing options for aircraft from US manufacturers are no afforded to US airlines. I agree and I think its a travesty.

Thanks, I'm glad you understand where I'm coming from. And I'll concede these may be our last days before we go the same way as the maritime industry. But that won't happen without a fight. A real ugly fight.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Thanks, I'm glad you understand where I'm coming from. And I'll concede these may be our last days before we go the same way as the maritime industry. But that won't happen without a fight. A real ugly fight.

Doesn't really have to be that way, the industry could rise to the challenge just like the auto industry did and actually start delivering some quality service for a change, jezz....!

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Doesn't really have to be that way, the industry could rise to the challenge just like the auto industry did and actually start delivering some quality service for a change, jezz....!

So says the guy who hope then yen stays viable....ok, thanks

 

[Varmint]

So says the guy who hope then yen stays viable....ok, thanks

It doesn't matter what he thinks about the yen. He is right. The big 3 automakers had to step up to the plate to compete against Japanese automakers. Other than updating the old US fleet of aircraft, which is currently happening no thanks to government loan programs, it is the same thing that US carriers need to do to remain viable in a competitive industry. Do you not agree with that?

Incidentally, I think that the US government ought to provide financing at an ultra low interest rate AND provide significant tax breaks to any US carrier that only purchases American made aircraft.

 

[Varmint]

Is EK still planning to add the A350s or will they swap them for more A380s?

Also, when will EK begin the move to the new airport outside of Dubai?

There has been no official announcement of the A350 orders being cancelled so rumors are flying off the wall. We suspect we are not getting them.

I think moving to the new airport will have a lot to do with Expo 2020. If Dubai is picked as the host city, I believe that a move to the new airport will occur before that time. There are also rumors of all carriers except for Emirates being moved to the new airport in the near future.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

So says the guy who hope then yen stays viable....ok, thanks

First of all, my salary is in USD, second, with 1.7 trillion of US debt we ALL better hope that their currency remains viable....!

It doesn't matter what he thinks about the yen. He is right. The big 3 automakers had to step up to the plate to compete against Japanese automakers. Other than updating the old US fleet of aircraft, which is currently happening no thanks to government loan programs, it is the same thing that US carriers need to do to remain viable in a competitive industry. Do you not agree with that?

Incidentally, I think that the US government ought to provide financing at an ultra low interest rate AND provide significant tax breaks to any US carrier that only purchases American made aircraft.

Well said....! The product must improve, independently of whatever the yen does

Newer equipment is important, but a whole review of the way people are treated is in order too, a little less attitude will go a long way to climb from the 40-50 spots in the world rankings.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

It doesn't matter what he thinks about the yen. He is right. The big 3 automakers had to step up to the plate to compete against Japanese automakers. Other than updating the old US fleet of aircraft, which is currently happening no thanks to government loan programs, it is the same thing that US carriers need to do to remain viable in a competitive industry. Do you not agree with that?

Incidentally, I think that the US government ought to provide financing at an ultra low interest rate AND provide significant tax breaks to any US carrier that only purchases American made aircraft.

Dead On....good post!

 

[Flopgut]

Newer equipment is important, but a whole review of the way people are treated is in order too.

I believe the people who need to be treated better first most are the airline workers. Not the least of which is the cabin staff. Yeah, their old and not pageant winners like 90% of yours overseas. But the average US customer is quite frankly a hostile goon who thinks they bought the whole airplane for their $250 dollar ticket. I think you guys forget that fact. Additionally, with the CAL/UAL combination we have the 70 year old FA market pretty much cornered, for now. However turnover has started and the new FAs are coming from a pool of candidates who have had a real tough time in the job market. They're hungry and they want to do well. It's competitive and we're getting good people.

Now before you give me some lecture about how wonderful your airline's service is and how I'll never understand (and I'm sure you'll throw in one of your own personal experience stories of how my airline's service sucks) but skip it. Consider this: Do you remember the NWA FA that stopped the scumbag who was trying to light the fuse on his shoe? Remember they showed her outside the terminal with her hand bandaged smoking a cigarette? I'm guessing she was in at least her third decade of being a FA by the way she looked. And I would guess her chances of being hired to do the same job at Emirates or ANA would be less than a snowball's in hell. But I'd take her over one of you're beauty queens. To either rely on working together or if my family was riding a pass. Because believe it or not, you don't have to be gorgeous to do a good job. I'm sure your FAs are trained well and I'm sure you're already formulating a post explaining to me how ANA FAs have to pass both ninja and gourmand training. But skip that too, ok? Because the fact of the matter is you don't wear the bullseye. We do. You don't have to deal with what we do and truth be told, it's what you're trying to build your whole business on.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Because the fact of the matter is you don't wear the bullseye. We do. You don't have to deal with what we do and truth be told, it's what you're trying to build your whole business on.

Regrettably you didn't do any research before you posted all that nonsense, there have been three hijackings and many other attempts of ANA airplanes with people having lost their lives in the process, one of them the captain was killed.
If you think that hostile passengers is an exclusive trade of the American traveler you most definitely live a very insulated life, in all my years flying in the US, I've never had to divert because a passenger became violent and attacked a cabin attendant or other passengers, I've had to do it twice here. Airline security concerns are a world problem, not just a US problem. Now, are you seriously arguing that service is as bad as it is because security concerns?

I've said it before that people place service with the age of the cabin attendants, that is a ridiculous notion, ANA, JAL, Lusfthansa, British airways, KLM, Singapore airlines, all these companies have very senior staff as cabin attendants and as costumer service representatives, all these companies have unionized work forces but all these companies fair very well in the worlds rankings year after year.

 

[Flopgut]

Regrettably you didn't do any research before you posted all that nonsense, there have been three hijackings and many other attempts of ANA airplanes with people having lost their lives in the process, one of them the captain was killed.

You know, if that's your perspective, if that's the connection you make to our reality, then you certainly found your place in the world. You're right where you belong.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Regrettably you didn't do any research before you posted all that nonsense, there have been three hijackings and many other attempts of ANA airplanes with people having lost their lives in the process, one of them the captain was killed.
If you think that hostile passengers is an exclusive trade of the American traveler you most definitely live a very insulated life, in all my years flying in the US, I've never had to divert because a passenger became violent and attacked a cabin attendant or other passengers, I've had to do it twice here. Airline security concerns are a world problem, not just a US problem. Now, are you seriously arguing that service is as bad as it is because security concerns?

I've said it before that people place service with the age of the cabin attendants, that is a ridiculous notion, ANA, JAL, Lusfthansa, British airways, KLM, Singapore airlines, all these companies have very senior staff as cabin attendants and as costumer service representatives, all these companies have unionized work forces but all these companies fair very well in the worlds rankings year after year.

Nobody tries to hijack a Nippon Cargo plane....j/K

 

[General Lee]

Regrettably you didn't do any research before you posted all that nonsense, there have been three hijackings and many other attempts of ANA airplanes with people having lost their lives in the process, one of them the captain was killed.
If you think that hostile passengers is an exclusive trade of the American traveler you most definitely live a very insulated life, in all my years flying in the US, I've never had to divert because a passenger became violent and attacked a cabin attendant or other passengers, I've had to do it twice here. Airline security concerns are a world problem, not just a US problem. Now, are you seriously arguing that service is as bad as it is because security concerns?

I've said it before that people place service with the age of the cabin attendants, that is a ridiculous notion, ANA, JAL, Lusfthansa, British airways, KLM, Singapore airlines, all these companies have very senior staff as cabin attendants and as costumer service representatives, all these companies have unionized work forces but all these companies fair very well in the worlds rankings year after year.

And DL still makes a $1.37 Billion profit in one quarter......can you believe it? Dumb pilot would have everyone believe that the US Carriers all stink, but I guess not...... Guess what? A lot of those now consistent profits are going towards new terminals, new lie flat seats, etc. It appears to be working, you should know, you commute on DL to NRT from MSP, right? Been on the 777?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[typhoonpilot]

Admit it? Admit that I love my job? Sure. Do I think I work for a great company? Sure. I also give my own opinions about things I know. I know that the big 3 legacies are all going to experience tons of retirements and upward movement is going to be great. Pay rates have come up from BK days, and the DC funds have replaced uncertain pensions. TP and others see this, and the complaining I hear and read about Gulf Carrier conditions seems pretty accurate. Why anyone wouldn't want to bail out (even from a 777 Capt seat like TP did) and get on with ANY of the big 3 is beyond me. This board has plenty of prospective newhires looking at all the options, and they should be able to read about what may or may not happen in their future companies. Flying an A380 in two years may be awesome, but how do the rest of the family feel while the pilot is globetrotting and they are left in the desert? Being single may be a lot different, but being married may be really tough. And dealing with the local laws and what about needing permission from a certain CEO of another ME airline to get married to one of their FAs? Really? Permission?

Any big airline in the States sounds better than that. I'm just repeating what I hear and read. Feel free to dispute any of that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Actually, a pretty good post General.

I advise younger Americans at Emirates to really look long and hard at their options right now. Even a 40 year old can make the move to a U.S. legacy and enjoy a 25 year career in his home country. Staying at Emirates or one of the others for that length of time is not something most will be able to do for various reasons.

I made the move to Emirates and I was here advising others that it could be a great career move back when the U.S. airline industry was in a shambles. Furloughs, bankruptcies, lost pensions, stagnant seniority lists, pay cuts, etc. I was right, it was a great career move for many. They increased their earnings, increased their qualifications, and enjoyed a better quality of life. Now the situation in America has changed and those same people should recognize that.

As always it is an individual decision. A lot of people did not come to Emirates because of their individual circumstances. So now the ones who did come to Emirates will also have to weigh the pros and cons of going back to the States. I talk to a lot of Americans at Emirates and many are actively looking to move back.

I would hope the sentiment of people like Sniper is not the majority. The American pilots at Emirates are not the enemy. These are guys who made decisions to better themselves and their family during the dark days of post 9-11 U.S. airline life. They have done nothing to hurt U.S. airline pilots. Heck Emirates didn't even fly to the States when many of us went there to interview.


TP


P.S. You gave me a good laugh by quoting me in your signature line :0

 

[Varmint]

I believe the people who need to be treated better first most are the airline workers. Not the least of which is the cabin staff. Yeah, their old and not pageant winners like 90% of yours overseas. But the average US customer is quite frankly a hostile goon who thinks they bought the whole airplane for their $250 dollar ticket. I think you guys forget that fact. Additionally, with the CAL/UAL combination we have the 70 year old FA market pretty much cornered, for now. However turnover has started and the new FAs are coming from a pool of candidates who have had a real tough time in the job market. They're hungry and they want to do well. It's competitive and we're getting good people.

Now before you give me some lecture about how wonderful your airline's service is and how I'll never understand (and I'm sure you'll throw in one of your own personal experience stories of how my airline's service sucks) but skip it. Consider this: Do you remember the NWA FA that stopped the scumbag who was trying to light the fuse on his shoe? Remember they showed her outside the terminal with her hand bandaged smoking a cigarette? I'm guessing she was in at least her third decade of being a FA by the way she looked. And I would guess her chances of being hired to do the same job at Emirates or ANA would be less than a snowball's in hell. But I'd take her over one of you're beauty queens. To either rely on working together or if my family was riding a pass. Because believe it or not, you don't have to be gorgeous to do a good job. I'm sure your FAs are trained well and I'm sure you're already formulating a post explaining to me how ANA FAs have to pass both ninja and gourmand training. But skip that too, ok? Because the fact of the matter is you don't wear the bullseye. We do. You don't have to deal with what we do and truth be told, it's what you're trying to build your whole business on.

A couple of points to consider.

1. I think most people who purchase an airline ticket are demanding and think that they own the airplane regardless of their nationality. Anyone who has flown predominantly Indians, Arabs, or Russians will tell you how demanding they are in comparison to Americans. My opinion is that there are a-hole passengers everywhere in the world. Truth be told, we are in the service industry and we need to be customer service oriented. There is a fine line between a safety related problem and an employee getting their feelings hurt because they were not spoken to in a polite manner. One observation I have made is that crew members like to be treated with respect and they want people to be understanding and realize that things happen in our industry that are beyond our control.....but....the second we arrive early and the hotel van is not ready or the hotel rooms are not ready, the same crew member gets upset and speaks rudely to the front desk clerk or the van driver. Again, there is a fine line between a safety related passenger problem and an employee getting their feelings hurt because they were not spoken to in a polite manner

2. Bullseye? Are you speaking of the treat of terrorism? Every airline has that threat, not just the US carriers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_hijackings

Unfortunately, our government have chosen not to use profiling when screening passengers. I believe this is a HUGE mistake. Most other countries profile and it works well in thwarting threats. Additionally, the procurement procedures used by the US government for obtaining security screening equipment needs to be changed. The current system provides for too much waste, machines that don't work that well, and loads of monetary mismanagement.

In regards to your FA remarks. Most here have either a masters or a PHD so their learning ability is high. After seeing crew training here and in the US, I have to say that the emergency abilities are on par with each other.

 

[fareview]

Slightly off topic by but related.

There was a thread awhile back about how EK was denied the ability to fly Federal employees because of ALPAs protestations and it was successful.

Yet a a small South African outfit is contracted to fly US troops from DXB to Kandahar. With EK beginning flights to Kabul I would have been very proud to have flown US troops.

Anyway read the incident report on this little outfits actions going into Kandaher.

Not good...but presumably ok with ALPA:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/md-83-struck-wing-after-unstable-afghan-approach-392501/

fv

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Slightly off topic by but related.

There was a thread awhile back about how EK was denied the ability to fly Federal employees because of ALPAs protestations and it was successful.

Yet a a small South African outfit is contracted to fly US troops from DXB to Kandahar. With EK beginning flights to Kabul I would have been very proud to have flown US troops.

Anyway read the incident report on this little outfits actions going into Kandaher.

Not good...but presumably ok with ALPA:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/md-83-struck-wing-after-unstable-afghan-approach-392501/

fv

No world domination and 5th freedom applications from this airline either....soooooo draw your own conclusions.

 

[Andy]

Slightly off topic by but related.

There was a thread awhile back about how EK was denied the ability to fly Federal employees because of ALPAs protestations and it was successful.

Yet a a small South African outfit is contracted to fly US troops from DXB to Kandahar. With EK beginning flights to Kabul I would have been very proud to have flown US troops.

Anyway read the incident report on this little outfits actions going into Kandaher.

Not good...but presumably ok with ALPA:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/md-83-struck-wing-after-unstable-afghan-approach-392501/

fv

Apples and oranges.
The DoD contracted out the entire aircraft for nonsched chartered lift. If EK wants to bid on that, I doubt that ALPA would object. There is no restriction on the bidder being a US flag carrier.
ALPA objected to EK being used for purchasing tickets on scheduled air carriers that are not US flag carriers, in accordance with the JFTR (Joint Federal Travel Regulations).

Buried deep in the JFTR, you'll find one of the restrictions on government travelers: "Must not use foreign flag transportation, even if U.S. certificated air flag carrier fares are higher,"

Ref:
T4020 TDY TRAVEL POLICY
B4c

 

[sniper]

The first US major that strikes a deal with Emirates similar to Qantas will reap handsome rewards. Fighting the 5th freedom push will only result in a slow death of wide body international operated by the Majors.



Are you dreaming again? Qantas laid off hundrends of pilots and gave them preferential interviews at Emirates,,,,,,,

many had to go to the other s--- hole Qatar.

 

[sniper]

??????

 

[sniper]

I would hope the sentiment of people like Sniper is not the majority. The American pilots at Emirates are not the enemy. These are guys who made decisions to better themselves and their family during the dark days of post 9-11 U.S. airline life. They have done nothing to hurt U.S. airline pilots. Heck Emirates didn't even fly to the States when many of us went there




Its ok to make a decision to better yourself and family. I dont dispute that at all.


to talk s----- about the US legacies and turn around 4-5 years later and ask for a job is what i dont like and I hope our recruiters recognize that.

If a recruiter ask any of those guys "why you want to work here" what will they answer ? We need people with the highest integrity my friend , not liers

And yes no more routes to EK, we dont want to be the next Qantas.