New Emirates order....

[sniper]

Which 3 UAE carriers are you against?

I should have said Gulf carriers sorry

Emirates, Etihad and Qatar sorry

 

[sniper]

Green, he has a problem with general math, geography and spelling!

Have you learned their language and pillars yet?

Changed your wardrobe maybe

 

[uba757]

Have you learned their language and pillars yet?

Changed your wardrobe maybe

Man that was a great comeback!!!
1. Since everything here is in English, the answer is no!
2. I am Catholic and my family and I go to a Catholic church here in DXB, so no Pillars for us.
3. My wardrobe, yes I did change that, it is a little hotter here than back home in the US so I am wearing shorts and flip-flops more often! Any other questions?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Man that was a great comeback!!!
1. Since everything here is in English, the answer is no!
2. I am Catholic and my family and I go to a Catholic church here in DXB, so no Pillars for us.
3. My wardrobe, yes I did change that, it is a little hotter here than back home in the US so I am wearing shorts and flip-flops more often! Any other questions?

A little hotter? Really?
Like a little more sandier?

My question is why do you constantly defend the sandbox like the neighborhood is awesome, the people really want you there, the work rules are stellar and this was your first choice in career moves?

 

[uba757]

Bill, have you been to Dubai? I live in a very nice villa, in a very nice neighborhood, my kids go to a very nice school where they are getting a great education, I drive a nice car and I have never been insulted or mistreated by any locals! My work rules , they are ok, I fly 80 hours a month, get most of the trips I request and spend 15 to 18 days at home with my family every month. Pay is good and so are the benefits! Are there things here that are not so good, of course! There are things that are not so good every where in the world including back home but as long as the good outweighs the bad, I am happy! Actually my family likes it here and that is most important for me!

 

[Flopgut]

http://www.emirates.com/english/images/Airlines and subsidy - our position new_tcm233-845771.pdf

30 or so pages of Emirates propaganda. I find it disgusting that Ch 11 is termed "aid" for the US carriers. The combination of UAL and CAL today is smaller than UAL was in 2001. If Emirates found themselves in the dire straits we faced here what would anyone guess the aid they would receive? Free fuel? Free airplanes? Anything and everything. It would be literally limitless.

I'm a former CAL pilot. What I notice is the average sUAL pilot doesn't understand how much the US government is still pissed about the "summer of love". IMO: the second ATSB loan turndown was payback for that. Idk where this ends up. It would be nice to try and emulate some of what we did at CAL and try to elevate the product. However I'm not sure we're going to get back into Uncle Sam's good graces no matter what we do.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Bill, have you been to Dubai? I live in a very nice villa, in a very nice neighborhood, my kids go to a very nice school where they are getting a great education, I drive a nice car and I have never been insulted or mistreated by any locals! My work rules , they are ok, I fly 80 hours a month, get most of the trips I request and spend 15 to 18 days at home with my family every month. Pay is good and so are the benefits! Are there things here that are not so good, of course! There are things that are not so good every where in the world including back home but as long as the good outweighs the bad, I am happy! Actually my family likes it here and that is most important for me!

Sure Did....In fact, lived in Sharjah while we were dropping bombs elsewhere. If you look south 3 blocks from the Crowne plaza there and you would find my gubmint paid flat.

I can vouch for your schools, I went out with an English Schoolteacher and know the student to teacher ratio is very small...like 3 to 1.

Those people don't want us there, they treat us no different than the Flips in the Grocery stores or the bangladeshi on the construction sites.....we are guests serving them and they let you know it. Watch out for the flip-flops and shorts during Ramadan....ahhh culture.

As far as the work goes...how does EK upgrade? In order? (rhetorical)

No kidding though, if you and your family are happy then that is all that matters. Nobody on FI should tell you differently. Best of luck to you all. Seriously.

It's just not for everybody though....please don't sell that idea.

 

[Dan Roman]

.

Those people don't want us there, they treat us no different than the Flips in the Grocery stores or the bangladeshi on the construction sites.....we are guests serving them and they let you know it. Watch out for the flip-flops and shorts during Ramadan....ahhh culture.
(rhetorical)
.

Not saying it's you personally or not, but......living in a foreign country is all about having the ability to respect different cultures rather than judge them compared to your own. If you are in someone elses country why would anyone think they shouldn't respect local customs? Overseas living, just like International travel is not for everyone. But I think those that have a career that includes expat flying have a richer life with wider experience because of it.
Some people have no problems living in foreign countries, others do. But those that do have problems can usually trace their difficulties to their attitude as the problem.

 

[Jetjockey]

So what is to stop Emirites from having a US base? I can't think of any reason they couldn't. They will have to start pilfering pilots from US airlines to fill the cockpits of all the planes they have on order.

 

[Dan Roman]

So what is to stop Emirites from having a US base? I can't think of any reason they couldn't. They will have to start pilfering pilots from US airlines to fill the cockpits of all the planes they have on order.

Well, to do that they would have to offer more money. Then to keep their pilots the U S airlines would have to increase their pay. Sounds like a good thing to me.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Not saying it's you personally or not, but......living in a foreign country is all about having the ability to respect different cultures rather than judge them compared to your own. If you are in someone elses country why would anyone think they shouldn't respect local customs? Overseas living, just like International travel is not for everyone. But I think those that have a career that includes expat flying have a richer life with wider experience because of it.
Some people have no problems living in foreign countries, others do. But those that do have problems can usually trace their difficulties to their attitude as the problem.

Not me...you are correct, I could care less about where they put me.

I just think they treat women like cattle over there and have lost respect for a lot of them. But if you have to live in the sandbox, the closest place for tolerance is DXB.

 

[Varmint]

Not me...you are correct, I could care less about where they put me.

I just think they treat women like cattle over there and have lost respect for a lot of them. But if you have to live in the sandbox, the closest place for tolerance is DXB.

I'm confused as to how they treat women like cattle over here.

Can you please enlighten me and explain the ways you saw women being treated like cattle over here?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

(GasP) Varmint.....drop your head in the sand and keep it there.

Covering the women up head to toe when its 50C....next door they wont even let them drive. Go the other direction next door and they impose sharia and marry them off at 11 and participate in honor killing etc.....stop defending the underlying extremist medeival attitude they have in the region.

Stay enlightened Varmint....Damascus and Beirut were once considered the safe dream of the sandbox.

 

[Flopgut]

I'm confused as to how they treat women like cattle over here.

Can you please enlighten me and explain the ways you saw women being treated like cattle over here?

Earlier you spoke of profiling. I think you were right then, but I have to question this post. Are you denying that you have those sorts of problems over there? You might be in some protected little oasis, but there does indeed exist a problem with treatment of women in the region. Im not interested in splitting hairs or giving DXB or Emirates the benefit of the doubt. It's like profiling, really. As much as you might disagree, I don't see whats going on in DXB as a sufficient solution to human rights. Nor do I see DXB or Emirates as anything but a spoiler or de facto benefactor to the horrible things perpetrated by others from that region, religion or of that decent. After what our Country has had to come in and do in the region, I don't think a single company should come out of there flourishing where US companies are not. Least of all a commercial airline. Maybe I'm not 100% right, maybe not even 50%, I don't know. But I think that discussion ought to take place. It needs to be part of the dialog in what should lead to a national air transportation policy in the US.

 

[Varmint]

(GasP) Varmint.....drop your head in the sand and keep it there.

Covering the women up head to toe when its 50C....next door they wont even let them drive. Go the other direction next door and they impose sharia and marry them off at 11 and participate in honor killing etc.....stop defending the underlying extremist medeival attitude they have in the region.

Stay enlightened Varmint....Damascus and Beirut were once considered the safe dream of the sandbox.

Are we discussing Dubai or next door? I've never defended the "region"....I just correct statements that are incorrect or skewed.

Last time I checked, most women in Dubai dressed themselves and didn't have someone dress them. There are no laws stating that the Abaya has to be worn here and there are plenty of women who don't wear it. Some do CHOOSE to wear it.

I asked a simple question.....for you to back up your statement with facts. So far, you have only come up with "covering the women up from head to toe when its 50C". Care to add anymore? The rest of the accusations were for other countries. Because Mexico is in the same region as the US, should I make blanket statements regarding problems there when speaking specifically of the US?

Trying to personally insult someones level of awareness and intelligence to take away from your inability to answer questions and back up statements that you made is a cheap shot. You tend to do that a lot.

 

[flyboyike]

So what is to stop Emirites from having a US base?

They'd have to hire US flight attendants. I don't think anyone wants that.

 

[Varmint]

Earlier you spoke of profiling. I think you were right then, but I have to question this post. Are you denying that you have those sorts of problems over there? You might be in some protected little oasis, but there does indeed exist a problem with treatment of women in the region. Im not interested in splitting hairs or giving DXB or Emirates the benefit of the doubt. It's like profiling, really. As much as you might disagree, I don't see whats going on in DXB as a sufficient solution to human rights. Nor do I see DXB or Emirates as anything but a spoiler or de facto benefactor to the horrible things perpetrated by others from that region, religion or of that decent. After what our Country has had to come in and do in the region, I don't think a single company should come out of there flourishing where US companies are not. Least of all a commercial airline. Maybe I'm not 100% right, maybe not even 50%, I don't know. But I think that discussion ought to take place. It needs to be part of the dialog in what should lead to a national air transportation policy in the US.

I am not denying problems but I didn't make the initial unsupported statement either. Bill said he thought that they just treated their women like cattle over here...so I asked how.

I bolded a portion of your text above. What has the US been forced to come do in the UAE and how does that have anything to do with the UAE and Emirates? It was the choice of the US to go into Iraq and Afghanistan. The UAE supported the war on terror and allowed the US to operate in and out of here. Do you think that decision helped or hurt what other countries in the "region" think of the UAE and did it possibly put a terror target on its' back?

Your last comment regarding US airlines flourishing is understandable. However, if you want unrestricted access to the world you have to offer unrestricted access to the world. I think a free trade and a free enterprise society is much more beneficial and lucrative to everyone involved than a protectionist society is. It forces competition and forces companies to strive for their "A" game if they want to remain viable.

 

[General Lee]

I am not denying problems but I didn't make the initial unsupported statement either. Bill said he thought that they just treated their women like cattle over here...so I asked how.

I bolded a portion of your text above. What has the US been forced to come do in the UAE and how does that have anything to do with the UAE and Emirates? It was the choice of the US to go into Iraq and Afghanistan. The UAE supported the war on terror and allowed the US to operate in and out of here. Do you think that decision helped or hurt what other countries in the "region" think of the UAE and did it possibly put a terror target on its' back?

Your last comment regarding US airlines flourishing is understandable. However, if you want unrestricted access to the world you have to offer unrestricted access to the world. I think a free trade and a free enterprise society is much more beneficial and lucrative to everyone involved than a protectionist society is. It forces competition and forces companies to strive for their "A" game if they want to remain viable.

We already have access to the World, and negotiate directly with other countries, not via Gulf Carriers. I would bet that countries like Japan and China don't really want your A380 flying NRT to LAX or PVG to LAX, primarily because it could hurt their own national airlines. Not every country wants you to move in on their own airlines' turf. The 3 big Gulf carriers are going to get so many new planes (wouldn't that involve crushing debt for MOST airlines?), of course they are looking for places to put them.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[fareview]

With AA's link up with QR ... Etihad linking up with Deltas ugly sister Air France....the 777X described as the 777EK by Willie W. & Al Baker...

...I think it's pretty obvious where corporate America's priorities lie.

Roll on MIA DTW ORD PHL ATL.

And if the bookings stay like they are now for MXP-JFK...look for more of the same.

fv

 

[General Lee]

With AA's link up with QR ... Etihad linking up with Deltas ugly sister Air France....the 777X described as the 777EK by Willie W. & Al Baker...

...I think it's pretty obvious where corporate America's priorities lie.

Roll on MIA DTW ORD PHL ATL.

And if the bookings stay like they are now for MXP-JFK...look for more of the same.

fv

Congrats with that, but those people flying through the ME are either going there to stay, or onto India or Pakistan. There is no reason a US citizen would fly through DXB or AUH to go to Europe or Asia. So, you have one extra flight from JFK to Europe, it's vey doubtful you'll turn any US city into a hub. Birmingham to BOS??? Really? It's great your MXP flight is doing so great, 4 other airlines on the same route won't make it easy. It's very doubtful you'll do the same on even more lucrative routes, like LHR to JFK. Nah...... Enjoy BOS to Birmingham.... Sounds like a winner...


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[fareview]

You keep referring to BOS-BHX and a couple of other UK-US destinations presumably based on an interview given by an EK exec a couple of months ago.

I'm speculating that was a 'lead to nowhere' comment as EK is pretty canny when it comes to route launches.

Watch out for CDG-LAX on an A380 at some point in the future.

Until then it's fill the suites with Italian businessmen.

fv

 

[atpcliff]

So what is to stop Emirites from having a US base?
They'd have to hire US flight attendants. I don't think anyone wants that.

KAL and NCA and Cathay and two Chinese airlines have US pilot bases, and I don't think any of them have US cabin crew.

There is no reason a US citizen would fly through DXB or AUH to go to Europe or Asia.

I just flew threw DOH/DXB and DOH to get to and from Jakarta.

I wanted to fly DAL or Skyteam...DAL's website said they did not have any flights (despite serving GRB and Skyteam partners serving CGK. Garuda Indonesia's (Skyteam) website said they did not serve GRB. Air France's site said they didn't serve GRB. KLM's website said they served GRB, but their prices were very high.

My next choice was UAL/Star Alliance. The UAL website showed that routing, but the prices were high.

I was booked on Qatar out of Chicago. After the very short leg to ORD it was only 2 legs to get to Jakarta, and the price on QR was the lowest of all the itineraries I looked at, with also the fastest trip/most convenient itinerary.

Every time I am now looking at itineraries to Africa, Asia or Australia, I am always checking QR, EY and EK (Qatar, Etihad and Emirates) as they often have the best combination of price, short travel time and easy connections.

 

[Varmint]

We already have access to the World, and negotiate directly with other countries, not via Gulf Carriers. I would bet that countries like Japan and China don't really want your A380 flying NRT to LAX or PVG to LAX, primarily because it could hurt their own national airlines. Not every country wants you to move in on their own airlines' turf. The 3 big Gulf carriers are going to get so many new planes (wouldn't that involve crushing debt for MOST airlines?), of course they are looking for places to put them.


Bye Bye---General Lee

The UAE may not have as expansive rights with the same number of countries but they have a good amount.

I don't think Japan and China think any differently of an Emirates 380 coming in than they do a Delta 747. Both are foreign carriers flying in their country.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

I am not denying problems but I didn't make the initial unsupported statement either. Bill said he thought that they just treated their women like cattle over here...so I asked how.

I bolded a portion of your text above. What has the US been forced to come do in the UAE and how does that have anything to do with the UAE and Emirates? It was the choice of the US to go into Iraq and Afghanistan. The UAE supported the war on terror and allowed the US to operate in and out of here. Do you think that decision helped or hurt what other countries in the "region" think of the UAE and did it possibly put a terror target on its' back?

Your last comment regarding US airlines flourishing is understandable. However, if you want unrestricted access to the world you have to offer unrestricted access to the world. I think a free trade and a free enterprise society is much more beneficial and lucrative to everyone involved than a protectionist society is. It forces competition and forces companies to strive for their "A" game if they want to remain viable.

That wasn't my quote......

 

[Flopgut]

I don't think Japan and China think any differently of an Emirates 380 coming in than they do a Delta 747. Both are foreign carriers flying in their country.

Lets not ignore the important contributions NWA (absorbed into DAL) made to Japan. They helped start Japan Airlines. In fact there would not be a Japan Airlines without NWA. NWA did similar important flying for China. Emirates isn't going to make that sort of contribution, they have one goal: dominate and take everything. ICAO and "freedoms of the air" came to exist after WW2 because it was feared that US airlines would dominate world air transportation. US airlines were stopped then, why should Emirates, Ethiad, and Qatar not have their growth plans checked just as ours were?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Are we discussing Dubai or next door? I've never defended the "region"....I just correct statements that are incorrect or skewed.

Last time I checked, most women in Dubai dressed themselves and didn't have someone dress them. There are no laws stating that the Abaya has to be worn here and there are plenty of women who don't wear it. Some do CHOOSE to wear it.

I asked a simple question.....for you to back up your statement with facts. So far, you have only come up with "covering the women up from head to toe when its 50C". Care to add anymore? The rest of the accusations were for other countries. Because Mexico is in the same region as the US, should I make blanket statements regarding problems there when speaking specifically of the US?

Trying to personally insult someones level of awareness and intelligence to take away from your inability to answer questions and back up statements that you made is a cheap shot. You tend to do that a lot.

Oh really,

Thanks for the PC lesson. I answered all your questions. You are trying to defend that side of the world on FI. Have at it. Use all your Dnata provided talking points.

Cheap shot? Hardly....it's the truth you can't handle.

 

[General Lee]

The UAE may not have as expansive rights with the same number of countries but they have a good amount.

I don't think Japan and China think any differently of an Emirates 380 coming in than they do a Delta 747. Both are foreign carriers flying in their country.

Yeah, they don't mind you flying from their country to YOUR new country. But, your grandiose plans of flying A380s from Haneda to LAX, ummmmmm yeah, they and JAL/ANA may have a problem with that. Same with China. Not many countries want to affect their own people who work for their national carriers. Italy allowed you to fly from MXP to JFK because, well, they are Italy and they are having problems now themselves, and Alitalia too has been a thorn in their Govt's side. Italy was trying to sell off the rest of it to AF/KL, and allowing EK to move in might be a "hint" to get things moving. Most Govts are more like Canada, France, and Germany, which are more protective of their national employment numbers.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[fareview]

Lets not ignore the important contributions NWA (absorbed into DAL) made to Japan. They helped start Japan Airlines. In fact there would not be a Japan Airlines without NWA. NWA did similar important flying for China. Emirates isn't going to make that sort of contribution, they have one goal: dominate and take everything. ICAO and "freedoms of the air" came to exist after WW2 because it was feared that US airlines would dominate world air transportation. US airlines were stopped then, why should Emirates, Ethiad, and Qatar not have their growth plans checked just as ours were?

Good question...ask AA management about that...they are the ones who have opened up the US to Qatar. That was the decision of the mgt of what will be the largest Airline in the world.

AA want this and the others will see in time what they are missing.

AC, DL & UA will come into the fold...AA did, QF did, BA did, AF did, JAL did, SAA did....heck even LH mgt came out and said they would no longer rule it out.

fv

 

[fareview]

Yeah, they don't mind you flying from their country to YOUR new country. But, your grandiose plans of flying A380s from Haneda to LAX, ummmmmm yeah, they and JAL/ANA may have a problem with that. Same with China. Not many countries want to affect their own people who work for their national carriers. Italy allowed you to fly from MXP to JFK because, well, they are Italy and they are having problems now themselves, and Alitalia too has been a thorn in their Govt's side. Italy was trying to sell off the rest of it to AF/KL, and allowing EK to move in might be a "hint" to get things moving. Most Govts are more like Canada, France, and Germany, which are more protective of their national employment numbers.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Nope...most governments understand that open (or more open) skies in the long run is good for the consumer & jobs.

Look at what it has done for American jobs with Boeing, the US's largest exporter (EK are their largest 777 customer). The inertia has always been towards the direction of freer markets...

You couldn't stop RJs (in fact your mgt orgied on them) and you couldn't stop LCCs, customers love them.

And you you won't stop the Gulf 3...AA, AF, QF & BA have just shown you that.

The ball is rolling...you won't stop it.

You guys sound like the bank tellers when ATMs hit the street - kicking and screaming until no one cared, because the product is what the market wanted.

fv

 

[fareview]

Just out over the news wires regarding Boeing talks with Machinists unions to keep T7 jobs in Seattle...

...they are in advanced negotiations with four customers for....wait for it...

$87bn in orders are DXB air show .

Great for American jobs.

fv