New Delta Capacity Cuts

[ThisistheDream]

I know we all laugh about a no furlough clasue, but what would have to happen for the company to envoke the force majuere now to get around the no furlough clause?

 

[General Lee]

I know we all laugh about a no furlough clasue, but what would have to happen for the company to envoke the force majuere now to get around the no furlough clause?

First of all, Delta is saying we will have a "profitable" 09. It would be interesting to show that to an arbitrator. Also, I don't think the economy or fuel costs are included in the Forced Manure clause. 9-11 was a different deal, because it was an unforseen major event. I think we have been watching this economy colapse for awhile now.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ThisistheDream]

Very good point GL. If DAL says they will be profitable overall for the 2009 year even with a very bad 1st quater, how could DAL try and enforce the force majuere, to allow furloughs with a no furlough clause when the company is making money or projecting to make money??

 

[N2264J]

First of all, Delta is saying we will have a "profitable" 09.

But they'll say anything.

The fact is, management doesn't know which way this economy is going to bounce or if it will bounce at all.

Do you guys even own a television machine?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Yes, and if you sit there and listen to it too much you will come on here to get you news!

 

[Midge]

Search here and ALPC...every SINGLE day he claims this and every day opposite

Perhaps you should worry about your own house instead of trolling every aviation website looking to see who's got wrong information!
TOOL!

 

[Midge]

But they'll say anything.

The fact is, management doesn't know which way this economy is going to bounce or if it will bounce at all.

Do you guys even own a television machine?

No, but I still have a rotary phone. Does that count?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Do not think so, but you are entitled to your opinion.

 

[General Lee]

But they'll say anything.

The fact is, management doesn't know which way this economy is going to bounce or if it will bounce at all.

Do you guys even own a television machine?

The key here is fuel prices. When we made the budget for 09, we figured $140 a barrel fuel prices. Now look where there are. Apparently we could triple the amount of pax declines we had AFTER 9-11, and still do well if fuel is that low. After 9-11 we still had other expenditures that are now gone from the books thanks to BK, like our pension unfortunately, more expensive leases on planes and gates, etc. You need to take that into account.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[pilotss]

This is a big cut. They decided that there was just not enough of a load to warrant keeping the lift for the Fall Quarter. After picking through the power point and the 8K it might be more of a frequency and gauge reduction. Now they cannot do a ton of this in overseas markets, so I see some sort of staffing shift. The benefit is that the CVG 767 base is now an ER base. They can transition then to all domestic flying if need be. That would save a lot of the ER catagory from displacement. That would equate to a bigger cut on the 767 domestic catagory. This could be done in ATL, SLC or LAX. Just a guess.
The bennifits are that there is a good amount of metal showing up in the next 12-24 months. Much of this will pick up the overstaffing.
I would be very surprised if we got though this without any furloughs. I would not be surprised to see 200-300 furloughs. That said it is only a guess. We still have the CPS flow in place. This equates to a lot of excess money to be spent. It is the best furlough protection there is. Post SOC we were looking to be slightly understaffed to adequately staffed. The managers will need to run the metric on this to determine if they need to make the cuts. This is a huge pull down, but furloughing may not give them justifiable gains to do so.

I always appreciate your style. Not huf no puff.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Looks like a possible displacement but no furloughs.

90's will be growth aircraft.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

The key here is fuel prices. When we made the budget for 09, we figured $140 a barrel fuel prices. Now look where there are. Apparently we could triple the amount of pax declines we had AFTER 9-11, and still do well if fuel is that low. After 9-11 we still had other expenditures that are now gone from the books thanks to BK, like our pension unfortunately, more expensive leases on planes and gates, etc. You need to take that into account.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Airlines are like wives, teenagers, Congress -- they CAN and WILL lose money /spend too much money no matter what the economic environment.


"...like our pension unfortunately..." = QUOTE OF THE DAY

 

[General Lee]

Airlines are like wives, teenagers, Congress -- they CAN and WILL lose money /spend too much money no matter what the economic environment.


"...like our pension unfortunately..." = QUOTE OF THE DAY

The pension loss was unfortunate, wasn't it? Some airlines were able to keep theirs, and some could not. Thanks for the quote of the day remark. How is your JB pension doing? What will your union do for you guys when/if things go south? Are you still cleaning cabins for free?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Bavarian Chef]

The pension loss was unfortunate, wasn't it? Some airlines were able to keep theirs, and some could not. Thanks for the quote of the day remark. How is your JB pension doing? What will your union do for you guys when/if things go south? Are you still cleaning cabins for free?

Bye Bye--General Lee

I voted for a union. Have always been in favor of a union. Hopefully we will have something better in the not too distant future. Doing so benefits the entire profession.

Thanks for the well wishes.

My remark was really about how casually you threw "like our pension unfortunately" out there. And the fact that now you are using it to spin something positive for your company's bottom line. You have to admit, you did.


I know the drill though:

Delta is the best, Delta is better than spray cheese, Delta invented Jesus.

Rah, Rah.

 

[General Lee]

I voted for a union. Have always been in favor of a union. Hopefully we will have something better in the not too distant future. Doing so benefits the entire profession.

Thanks for the well wishes.

My remark was really about how casually you threw "like our pension unfortunately" out there. And the fact that now you are using it to spin something positive for your company's bottom line. You have to admit, you did.


I know the drill though:

Delta is the best, Delta is better than spray cheese, Delta invented Jesus.

Rah, Rah.

Delta invented Jesus? Wow. And, I have not SPUN the loss of our pension into something positive--for us pilots. Did that make our company's financials better? UNFORTUNATELY YES. Can't deny that one. I never said it was a positive for us. You are spinning that one.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Bavarian Chef]

And, I have not SPUN the loss of our pension into something positive--for us pilots. Did that make our company's financials better? UNFORTUNATELY YES. Can't deny that one. I never said it was a positive for us. You are spinning that one.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Whatever, you say Crazy.

 

[Monster Buck]

First of all, Delta is saying we will have a "profitable" 09. It would be interesting to show that to an arbitrator. Also, I don't think the economy or fuel costs are included in the Forced Manure clause. 9-11 was a different deal, because it was an unforseen major event. I think we have been watching this economy colapse for awhile now.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Good points. But profitable or not, Force Majeure can not be invoked outside of its own definition. "act of God" period. 9-11, SARS...OK. It doesn't matter if the economy is up or down or if Delta reports a profit or not, the NFC stands for this. If there was no clause then they could furlough for the economy but that is not the case.
Anything can happen but unless its an act of god the clause stands.

 

[jonjuan]

Good points. But profitable or not, Force Majeure can not be invoked outside of its own definition. "act of God" period. 9-11, SARS...OK. It doesn't matter if the economy is up or down or if Delta reports a profit or not, the NFC stands for this. If there was no clause then they could furlough for the economy but that is not the case.
Anything can happen but unless its an act of god the clause stands.

Does allah count?

 

[Superpilot92]

But they'll say anything.

The fact is, management doesn't know which way this economy is going to bounce or if it will bounce at all.

Do you guys even own a television machine?

Whats a "television machine"?

Seriously though, Watching the TV for info is pointless. Most "news" channels are worthless in their reporting. Just watch any news piece about an aviation event or story and see how much they SCREW it up. i am convinced that the rest of the news is just as worthless. If they screw up that bad on stuff i know about then how bad is their info on the stuff i dont know about?

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

Very good point GL. If DAL says they will be profitable overall for the 2009 year even with a very bad 1st quater, how could DAL try and enforce the force majuere, to allow furloughs with a no furlough clause when the company is making money or projecting to make money??

"Your honor, like most businesses, Delta Airlines has been struggling. Delta Airlines, like every other business in this country, could not forsee the 'perfect storm' of financial malaise that has descended upon this country.

This financial chaos has hit our business hard, and we are doing our best to save Delta Airlines, and the tens of thousands of jobs that are associated with it. We have been closely analyzing every aspect of our business in order to make the critical changes needed and inflict the least amount of pain upon the fewest individuals.

Yes, it is true that Delta is projecting to make a small amount of money this quarter. However, please contrast that amount to the billions of dollars that Delta has lost over the past few years. It is clear that we have a huge financial hole to claw our way out of. We are confident that, given the latitude we need to execute our recovery plan, we can and will recover. We think it would be irresponsible of us to honor outdated and backwards clauses of certain labor contracts that would hamper our recovery. The needs of the many Delta employee outweigh the needs of the few priveleged individuals.

Unfortunately, some of the changes that we need to survive involve breaking contractual covenants. As we previously mentioned, we do not believe that anyone in any capacity saw this level of financial devastation heading our way. In light of this situation, we are asking you to grant us the authority to envoke the 'force majure' clause of our contracts to make the necessary changes that will ensure the viability of Delta Airlines as a going concern."


Enjoy your furlough.